The New Face Of Antidepressants?
38 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // April 18th, 2007 // 8:51 am
For the past three years, the controversy over antidepressants has largely centered on exploring links between the pills and suicidal behavior, particularly in youngsters. But there has also been considerable chatter about homicidal thoughts.
Several killings around the country have prompted defense lawyers to blame an antidepressant for a killing. Most famously, this occurred in South Carolina, where 12-year-old Chris Pittman claimed Pfizer’s Zoloft prompted him to kill his grandparents. And one of the Columbine killers was prescribed Luvox.
Drugmakers deny such links. And antidepressants remain popular, because psychiatrists say depression can lead to suicide, possibly masking the affects one of these pills may have. And despite FDA black box warnings, many simply feel a potential benefit outweighs a potential risk.
Now, though, the Virginia Tech shooter, Cho Seung-Hui, may cause drugmakers a new round of grief over the antidepressants as reports surface that he was being treated for depression and had been prescribed a medication for psychological problems.
Coincidentally, this tragedy occurs just as JAMA releases a study saying the pills may not be as closely linked to teenage suicide as some say. For drugmakers, this is welcome news. And for the moment, the full details of the Virginia Tech shooting remain unclear and speculative.
However, any indication that the shooter was, indeed, taking an antidepressant while on his rampage is going to reignite the debate over these drugs. And drugmakers should be prepared. Despite the JAMA report, which downplayed the risks, any sign one of these pills may have contributed to the shooter’s mindset could open a whole new chapter on the controversy.
Report on Cho Seung-Hui in The New York Times (registration required);
This week’s JAMA study (subscription required);
Report on Pittman case and Zoloft;
Report on Columbine killer;[tags]Antidepressants, Cho Seung-Hui[/tags]
Pharm Aid
Chicken or egg?
The argument from defense lawyers in each of these cases is that the individual was perfectly normal, although a little sad, was prescribbed antidepressants and became a killer (i.e., it was the drugs fault). Never mind that Eric Harris from Columbine was out killing animals for the year before Columbine or that toxicology reports could not find the drug in his system.
And now we want to blame Viriginia Tech on a prescription medication? Seriously, that’s a stretch even for Jayson Blair and the New York Times Editorial staff. Of course, if the Times couldn’t blame it on drugs, they would be looking for a Twinkie.
Might Cho Seung-Hui been on prescription medication? Perhaps. Will his parents who are suffering from this and greedy lawyers try to pin this whole thing on a drug company? Naturally.
It goes to causality. Trial lawyers would want you to believe that people are perfectly normal and are then prescribed antidepressants and only then have problems (the drug causes it). The reality is that these people are having trouble, which is why they get put on the drug in the first place.
With the slaughter in Virginia still fresh, let’s not take our eye off the ball or try to make excuses for this kid’s behavior… The kids and teachers who died deserve better.
peter pitts
Sorry Ed, I think this is an irresponsible post. You should know better.
Lisa Van Syckel
Lets get the facts straight;Eric Harris was prescribed zoloft in Feb 1998.He expressed Homicidal/suicidal feelings and Zoloft was discontinued.He was than Prescribed Luvox,and over the course of a year it was increased to the maximum dose of 200mg aprox 2 weeks before Columbine tragedy.I know because I saw Erics Medical File and will swaer to this under oath an Mr.Pitts you are fully awre that children who rcved this high dose in clinical trials were removed due to dangerous behavioural events,Sir you have been irresponsible.And secondly I witnessed first hand how violent and suicidal children become after my daughter was prescibed paxil for depression,only to find out she had Lyme diseaseAnd Lastly My daghter lost a dear friend due to this campus tragedy.ITS TIME FOR FDA AND THE PHARMACEUTICAL TO TELL THE TRUTH
ed
Hi Guys,
Thanks for writing.
You misunderstand. I’m not saying a drug was being taken - because that’s not yet clear - or if it was, could be blamed.
What I’m saying is that the buzz is already out there about this speculatve link. And that becomes part of the news. And if it does, drugmakers will have to deal with it, whether they like it or not.
That’s not the same thing as taking sides or even suggesting a link exists or is reasonable.
By the same token, I was crditicized by some parents last night for simply posting the JAMA study about antidpressants.
I appreciate the remarks, especially if they help others understand the issue. But these issues are out there, whether we like them or not.
And how come neither of you asked me what I thinik about guns?
Cheers
ed
Pharm Aid
I was waiting for the anti-SSRI activists to come out of the woodwork on this one. I first heard about SSRI’s causing suicidal thoughts from a “parental activist” on a flight from Las Vegas to Newark several years ago (makes me think I should write on the topic). It was a fascinating discussion and we were somewhere near the Mississippi River when she revealed to me that her brother had an “alien encounter” and her sister was living in a pluralistic marriage in Nevada (she was wife #3). It’s an experience one doesn’t forget.
I will be the first to admit that I have not seen Eric Harris’ medical file. However, Lisa brings up some very interesting arguments here. High doses (particulary doses beyond the product labeling or patients who are exceeding the maximum dosage) have been demonstrated to cause dangerous behavior…as does cold withdrawal from this product (the same is true in other classes). So, where does the repsponsibility lie? The drug maker? The doctor who prescribed it? The FDA?
Parents and trial lawyers have found it more financially lucrative to go after drug companies than the doctors. I have to wonder was it GSK’s repsonsibility that Michelle Van Syckel’s lyme disease was mis-diagnosed?
Back to the situation at Virginia Tech. It really is inevitable that people were going to claim that “something” caused this. People will do anything to abdicate responsibility for their actions–whether it is blaming their actions on a prescription medication, priest sex abuse or a Twinkie.
Ed–I appreciate your clarification. What do you think of guns?
Rosie M
Antidepressants can cause mania, psychosis, hostility, paranoid reaction, etc. according to the Physicians Desk Reference.
Go to: http://www.ssristories.com for a list of 1,572 cases of criminal behavior where the perpetrator was taking an antidepressant. It is a National Tragedy.
Lisa Van Syckel
Dear Pharm Aid, If Industry has nothing to hide than they should allow the public to review the raw data from the clinical trials.Industry will never allow this to happen,Why?Because they have a lot to hide.As far as being an activist, im proud of that.At least when I go to sleep at night I can sleep peacefully.Maybe you should contact Glaxo Smithkline and ask them to respond to any questions you have concerning my daughter
ed
Hi Pharm Aid,
I get your point, but don’t wish to discuss someone else’s private matters here. Again, all this will be moot if it turns out the Virginia Tech shooter was on chewable vitamins and not an antidepressant.
But if it was an antidepressant, then yes, there will be some hoopla. By virtues of the preliminary news reports, the hoopla is already starting, which is why I weighed in. And my point was simply that drugmakers will then have to deal with it.
As for guns, since I raised the issue, I’ll answer very briefly. I’m of two minds - there’s my tribal history, which suggests being armed is better than a passport and a foreign bank account. Then there’s my contradictory observation about the NRA explanation that ‘People Kill People.” What’s left off is that they use guns more than anything else to do so. Drive along Newark NJ highways and one can see billboards offering cash for guns and ‘Help Wanted’ to stop the killings. Phllly has an out of control gun problem. Take away guns, and most folks are left with knives and baseball bats (I think). No easy answers, to any of this.
Regards
ed
Laurie
Until someone has experienced the onset of violent thoughts and actions firsthand, it’s very easy to dismiss the connection. I, unfortunately, have witnessed this reaction in my own home. Anxious child prior to Paxil, violoent(event that would have been news making, averted with random discovery of information) on Paxil, and normal child post Paxil withdrawal.
Denying the possibility of this type of reaction,however small, is dangerous. It is well documented in pharma studies, and substantiated in case after case. Sadly, the public has not seen most of these studies in their entirety, so it’s easy to deny their existence.
All the metal detectors in the world are not going to stop a person having a psychotic reaction to a drug. There are other VERY dangerous and undetectable methods of “revenge”. Recognizing the cause of the psychosis is critical.
Lisa Van Syckel
This heated debate can easily be resolved,If all are concerned about this issue maybe we should contact Rep.Bart Stupak and call for a Congressional Investigation into antidepressants causing violence.As Senator Grassley so eloquently puts it Sunshine can be a great disinfectant.
Pharm Aid
I have acknowledged high doses can cause these symptoms (PDR and other sources validate this)…especially in patients that should not have been on the drugs at all. I have also acknowledged that withdrawal can be an issue with this class (as it is with other drug classes). I am not dismissing the connection. So now we all agree.
What I am saying is that causality is not proved with mere annecdote. Someone taking a drug at the same time they did something does not prove the drug caused it.
There were 196 million prescriptions for antidepressants in 2006 and 14.5 million people with depression. For sake of argument, let’s cut that in half and say there 7 million people on antidepressants (back of the envelope calcuation here). Someone offered up 1,572 cases in which people who committed crimes were on antidperessants. Assuming it happened in a single year, that works out to 0.022%. But it wasn’t a single year and many of those articles go back over a decade. So, now your denominator inflates by a factor of 10 and you are looking at an incidence rate of 0.0022%.
However, for sake of discussion, let’s assume concomittant use does prove causality. In the U.S., drunk driving (via alcohol) killed 16,885 people in 2005. We do not carve out some special exception for the perpetrators and claim that, since they were intoxicated, they should be absolved of their crimes. However that is exactly what some individuals claim about about antidepressants. Individuals, many of whom were exhibiting agressive and threatening behavior long before taking antidepressants, commit crimes while taking the drugs and therefore they should be absolved of all responsibility.
This is a hyper-emotional issue for some people. But causality cannot be proved by annecdote.
Lisa Van Syckel
when psychotropic drugs are prescribed and taken as directed, and then they suffer a violent event its called involuntary intoxication.And, involuntary intoxication is a viable defense here in the US.Drunk Driving is a poor example! Children are not anecdotes,they matter.Like I said lets have a Congressional hearing, so we can spread some much needed sunshine on this issue.I am also an individual who doesnt believe everything I here in the Media.You are right this is an emotional issue.There is no greater pain,than the pain parents endure when they lose a child.
Laurie
“But causality cannot be proved by annecdote.”
With a drug that is prescribed for a behavioral/emotional/mental issue, where the only “evidence” is behavior, how does one prove causality? The very efficacy of these drugs is based on anecdotal evidence. The reported side effects are based on anecdotal evidence. The adverse effects are based on anecdotal evidence. Just because they are ask according to a “scale” doesn’t make them any less anecdotal.
A report of violent thoughts reported to a doctor, denied by the doctor, and not reported to the FDA does not exist in any database.
So just what would be needed to prove causality?
Homer
The sitaution is really non debatable..the drugs are defective..the mfgs wont come clean with ther trial studies and why…$$$$$..so please as Lisa has suggested..until you walk in the very shoes we walk in, yes we, i too amon paxil…am taperig off and the understanding I have gathered for the “broken brain” is mind boggling.
so stop protecting WALL STREET and start to think about the millions upon millions on these drugs.
over 18 million people are on Paxil..if 1% of 1% of these people have vilent urges..that makes 1800 people walking the streets right now..not kowing tht the thoughts they are thinking today might impact thousands of innocent lives in the future.
WE, the so called “anti-med” crowd are not anti med..we are pro heal….and we know the truth about SSRi’s becuase we live it every single day.
Zee
I think Lisa Van Syckel has a good point: get a full investigation into the uses/abuse of the anti-depression drugs.
There is so much money involved in this subject, that it will probably take something at the level of the national government to actually confront it. And even then it will be difficult due to the campaign and other contributions from big pharma. Those donations exist no matter what else is going on.
I do know that there were no school murders when I was a kid, everyone in my school district (in South New Jersey) could read by the end of first grade, and there were no school psychologists - and no drugs given for depression or “hyperactivity.” The teachers were good at handling us, really liked us, and had a very high tolerance for busy kids. And very little tolerance for misbehavior.
I also know that some people are insane, some people are criminal, and are that way with or without drugs. And I BELIEVE that people are still responsible for their actions, drugs or not.
No easy answers to all this. But getting more questions answered, and the answers known is a good start.
My condolences to all the families of those who died, and to their friends.
Ben Magnie
Concerning the following statement made by Pharm Aid:
” The reality is that these people are having trouble, which is why they get put on the drug in the first place.”
I have a little problem with this statement. And that is due to the fact that to date there is ABSOLUTELY NO SCIENTIFIC EVEIDENCE TO BACK UP A SINGLE PSYCHIATRIC “DISEASE”. They are voted on, no different than how laws are made. We really should be calling them psychiatric statutes. This is how the the number or mental illnesses “discovered” and tossed into the DSM-IV has doubled and doubled again.
Not a week ago i read a ludacrous article in USA TODAY that claimed over 73 million americans are mentally ill. Says who? Where did this number come from? Its all a fraud. It may seem outrageous, but its the truth! If you dont believe me, ask any psychitrist in the world if he can show you scientific proof of a single psychiatric disorder and he will hang his head and under his breath mumble no.
So why then would it be concluded that these people are just crazy. according to whom? they’re not!
i admire and want to validate the fact that you are worried of a false scapegoat being branded on this event. Responsibility is never something to be taken lightly. Having said that, a scapegoat denotes a “wrong” target of persecution. So i dont think these drugs, which ARE known to cause psychosis, really deserve protection.
Thanks ed for writing this. You’re absolutely right. If it becomes definitive that he was on psych drugs, then once again drug companies are going to have a lot of explaining to do.
Linda
Thanks for posting this and for expressing what so many of us had on our minds. It IS time, way past time, to investigate the roll these drugs have in violent crime.
Richard L
One of the things that you might want to start thinking about. The drug industry is a very large money maker and will do what ever it takes to protect its interests. The US government is run by big business and lobbyists. Anyone ever see the movie Thank You for Smoking? For years we were told that cigarettes were not bad for you… Psychiatry has cured zero people by its own admission. People are getting sicker and sicker and the medical field cannot keep up. Mental health and physical health fields are no better today that 75 years ago. Why. Because drugs don’t work in most people. What they do is make people sicker. I saw my father in law and my grandmother both die earlier than they should because of drugs. WAKE UP AMERICA.
Songbird
Here’s a simple test that anyone can do. Log onto http://www.drugs.com. Type in Prozac or Seraquel or Zoloft or Ritalin, etc. Then read the reason for prescribing these drugs and then the side effects. ‘Nuff said. Oh, one more thing. Wear some kind of snug fitting headgear because your hair will certainly stand on end.
Christopher
Pharm aid:
I just want to tell you that you were great in “Thanks for smoking”. Your first lead role in a bigger movie?
Donna
Dear Pharm Aid.
I have to say that i found your comment about GSK’s responsibilty to Michelle VanSykel’s misdiagnosis quite humorous, funnier yet that you would even wonder for a fleeting moment if there was a connection. We all know the fault of misdiagnosis lie’s with the doctor. However, in this case had the doctor been made aware by GSK not to prescribe this medication off label due to the fact that it had not, and is still not approved for use in children, a proper diagnosis would have been made much faster, without all the time wasted dealing with illness due to side affect’s from the medication she was prescribed. We are lucky to still have her..
It is the responsibility of the pharmaceutical company’s to make sure that proper warning’s accompany the product’s they manufacture, it is their responsibility to make doctor’s aware of the risk’s involved here, so that information can be passed to the patient, at least then they can pursue other treatment option’s if they choose to do so.
” I don’t blame BETTY CROCKER when my brownie’s burn…after all they were kind enough to provide me with a cooking chart……….
Donna, Middlesex NJ
mercedes
Dear guys:
Since 1969 CCHR has been investigating psychiatric abuses in this field and the sound proof is that there is a lot of crime involved here. If you please watch the DVD Psychiatry an Industry of Death and you will get the facts, not subjective excuses of subjective illnesses. Open you eyes people. Of course the pharma aid will defend his “point$ of view”
Psychiatry is an hoax, their illnesses an hoax and they will die justifying all their crimes.
Life’s problems are not mental illnesses, life is life and we are capable of handling it. If we continue fostering drug addicts we will ALL be responsible of the deterioration of a whole civilization.
Mercedes Alvarez, Miami, Florida
J S Via
To Pharm Aid: Thank you for backing up a bit in your initial remarks - now justy keep on backing my friend because you are defending a proposition that will not stand up to the facts as they bear out - the “sunshine” if you will.
CCHR has long been putting out FACTS which were denied - much in the manner you deny here - and finally acknowledged by both the FDA AND all the pharmaceutical companies who now post their Black Box Warnings that their drugs - yes they tell you themselves - DO in fact CAUSE “mania, suicidality, homicidality”.
Who is responsible? Well, if the person taking the drug has been “diagnosed” without any blod, urine or brain scan tersts - and yet FORCED to take the drug by a psychiatrist on a subjective judgement of behavior - then the drug company and the psychiatrist gave that person the problem.
Scapegoat?
You’re thinking of the “Insanity Defense” - something thought up by your Pharma friends and psychiatrists. Why, heck - their drugs are completely about “It’s not you it’s your brain - and you can’t control or be responsible for THAT - so we have these POWERFUL DRUGS that will override your chemistry and put it back in balance for you - we can’t expect you to be responsible for anything that falls under our list of some 400 behavioral ‘Disorders’”.
No Pharm Aid - that shooter is responsible for his act and, drugs or not, had he lived, should have been brought under the law.
BUT HE HAD HELP
And psychiatry and Pharma need to be brought undere the law as equally responsible for giving him drugs that did NOTHING to decrease his behavior - and DEFINITELY magnified it to something he might never have followed through with.
THAT is criminal.
THAT is irresponsible.
And what about children?
Children commit suicide directly off these drugs. Should we not pass the buck and blame THEM rather than drug companies?
And here’s another fascinating fact: Psychiatry has NO MENTION OR STUDY OR RESEARCH on Suicide in the DSM IV! Yet they’re posing as experts?
Well, experts in having the highest rate of suicide of any profession - and experts in pedalling drugs that CAUSE asuicide!
Other than that they demonstrate NO ability to prevent suicide.
So, here is a good point for Congressional enquiry to start with. Until then make a wise decision, Pharm Aid - if you have any desire to be on the side that CARES about HELP and does not betray in the effort - then keep backing up in defending your filthy rich off the death of children and adults friend, Pharma - you have taken the correct direction. Keep going and you will be able to sleep without false assurance at night.
nora vitone
Interesting read>
Jason E. Masters
I took The brain disabling anti-depressants for eight years. I got worse not better. The doctors diagnosed an emotional response to rejection as a medical condition (Depression). I stopped after eight years of medical neglect and I have never felt better and normal. Sometime later I conducted my own experiment and took the drug effexor XR at the 75 mg dose for two days then stopped due to nausea. A few days later I wanted to committ suicide. The following week I swore never to take it again. I got right back to feeling normal. As of today all I take is prevacid for heartburn and halcion for sleep. My question to the world is how in the heaven or hell is psychiatry not mind control? They prescribe mind altering drugs because they disagree or disapprove of the way a person thinks feels or acts. I am in the process of writing my own DSM for conventional psychiatrists. Ask them to differentiate between thyroidian depression and their depression psychologically and they can’t.
Steve
I hope some personal injury attorneys will take note. If congress won’t take action, maybe juries will.
PEP
The mental health field is a joke. Dr.’s ask the same questions every time you go in. Questions like are you wanting to hurt yourself or any one else. They don’t take the time to talk to you and get to the core of what could be the problem. They don’t know what to do except put them on Med.’s that can do more harm than good. Imagine a ping pong game in your head going back and forth with nobody scoring a point. What happens when a point gets scored? This is what it is like to be on drugs that control the neurotransmitters of the brain. Learning or growing in mind is stoped on these drugs. Any amount of time spent on these drugs can cause damage to the pleasure senses of the brain creating depression. I know due to being court ordered in and outpatient treatment just last year. I no longer take the drugs. To find out more about what really is going on in the mind of people with mental health issuses explore spiritual awakening, jungian psychology, (Bi-Polar Disorder and Kundalini).
Paul Davis
I have a younger brother 28 y/o who when I went on a cruise with him and shared a cabin, every night after a bit of drinking, he’d want to physically start a fight around 2am or later. He is taking anti-depressants. Now I think I’m beginning to understand. Incidentally the parents 30 year anniversary wasn’t so pleasant for any of us.
Paul Davis - minister & life purpose coach
http://www.DreamMakerMinistries.com
http://www.CreativeCommunications.TV
Clare
I am sure most of you received this letter.
Dear Clare,
Thanks to help from thousands of you, your Senator this
week voted YES for real prescription drug reform. A “must pass”
bill will give you and your doctor more information about
hazardous drug side effects–but the drug industry is lobbying to
strip off hard won safety provisions.
Take a moment right now to say “Thanks!” for a good vote!
http://cu.convio.net/site/R?i=N7KRXTlLlWrp6VUGtjjdKQ..
This bill must pass the Senate floor this spring–so the opportunity
for real reform is huge.
Together we have already sent more than 43,000 messages just to
Senators on the key committee that voted this bill out
yesterday. Now we need to solidify support in the whole
Senate–with a vote coming as soon as next week. Let’s get a hundred
thousand more calls, letters and emails.
Your Senator has already shown leadership, but the drug companies
haven’t left Washington. They will be out in force, visiting Senate
offices and trying to get drug safety protections stripped
out of this bill. Drug companies spent more than $289,000 per member
of Congress to create stalemate in Washington between 2005
and 2006–and managed to defeat Medicare drug price reforms on the
floor of the Senate just this week.
That’s why its critical that you tell your Senator right
now “Thanks” and “Hang tough!”
http://cu.convio.net/site/R?i=vojpi1MFaegCwvnOEkEN-A..
Washington is broken, and the only fix is clear, persistent and direct
communication from you (alongside a hundred thousand
others). Please help us grow this campaign! Every Senator
from every state needs to hear from us. Please take a moment to
forward this action to everyone you know, and when they click through
they will be able to tell their own Senators to support reform, no
matter where they live.
Call your Senator.
Stacey
First let me say that not ALL MEDS are for everyone……Why is it we are willing to accept the side affects of certain drugs and not others?? We accept the fact that people can die from taking a simple anti-biotic but we refuse to believe that MIND ALTERING drugs can cause homicidal thoughts……….Just because the numbers aren’t staggering doesn’t mean it isn’t happening……Whether it is 1 or a 1,000,000 the side effects from these drugs should be taken seriously…….Talk to the people who have experienced the side affects, you will be surprised how they all have the same stories……My son is highly allergic to peanuts (he could die if he eats anything with peanuts)……No explanation as to Why……he just is……I didn’t breast feed so he couldn’t have gotten any allergies that way. No one in my family is allergic to peanuts, Yet my son is!! These type of drugs can certainly affect people differently…….It may be RARE, but it certainly can happen……..Look at my son! More investigation must be done on these drugs and their side effects…….Too many children are being put on them and not enough research has been done on them……If my memory serves me correct I read somewhere that ENGLAND banned the use of these drugs in children all together………So what does that say!!! Just my opinion!!
Stacey
I would just like to say the victims and their families of Virginia tech are in my prayers! May God bless them all!
Fraser
It’s very simple - read again the post by Lisa Van Syckel. This is common. The drugs increase the risk of violence and suicide. If they don’t why do they say they do on the packet? So why are they now banned? Well that has to be the next step. Surely you can see giving an amphetamin in the same drug class as cocaine to a child is criminal? Or are the dollar signs blocking your eyes? They sure as hell are blocking the drug companies eyes.
Anonymous
Cool…
Anonymous
interesting
Anonymous
Cool!
Anonymous
Nice!
Alan
Its ridiculous to say that pills had nothing to do with this
How can JAMA say that?
Are they being paid too by the pharma?
Why is it after decades very few cases have been in the media?
Why won’t the media and govt get involved in exposing this crime?
Did you also know that the CIA deals with experiments in Blacksburg, VA with Manchurian candidates?
With all the research and cases that come thru our desks at Defense Foundation For Children that most have something to do with medication prescribed to them?
Also there was a study done where most of the crime committed in Vegas was due to those who took meth?
And many that take meth have been on prescribed medication like antidepressents?
http://www.drbreggin.com
Best author on the subject
C. Hammer
I’d like to know if there has ever been a school shooting where the kid/kids were NOT on Psyche drugs”?????
Since when does it make sense to put people on mind altering drugs to improve them?
I personally have difficulty understanding how anyone would buy that pitch, having lived through the 60s.
Was nothing at all learned from the 60s and the medical and/or psychiatric introduced street drugs(check it out).
Wake up America…..