Imagine There Are No Drug Reps
20 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // August 4th, 2007 // 9:38 am
Since this is the weekend, we thought you may enjoy a break from the crush of news by listening to a song. But not just any song. For those with a utopian view of the world, perhaps you care to sing along to an amusing composition. Full disclaimer: We really do like drug reps. This is just for fun. Game?
Play this and start warbling.
Play Imagine There Are No Drug Reps
If it’s not working for you, try upgrading your Flash player to version 9.
Imagine there are no drug reps
It’s just a matter of time
No free pizza or donuts
or salesman full of lies
Imagine all the doctors
not hassled every dayImagine there are no companies
It isn’t hard to do
No one to fill or write for
And no more samples too
Imagine all the patients
living life at peaceYou may say that’s not our future
But I know its going to come
The end is near for drug reps
They won’t be missed when they’re goneImagine no competition
I wonder if you can
No need for sales or marketing
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the healthcare
Shared throughout the worldYou may say that’s not our future
But I know its going to come
The end is near for drug reps
They won’t be missed when they’re gone .
Many special thanks to The Pharma Spies for their vocals, lyrics, music and ingenuity.
pete
Very good :)
I.M. Annoyed
As a patient and someone who used to work in the industry (ironic - I know, but the last I checked no one gets out of this life alive..) Thanks for this.
It is one of my favorite songs and I love what you have done with it.
I think all the drug reps will easily find a way to become the true entrepreneurs that they are, working for themselves and earing vast amounts of money. Once all that fat is trimmed out of the system, along with the kick backs to doctors, lobbyist and various charities (can you say “hush” money) then we will start to see a trend towards more universal health care..
John Lennon had a dream - we can make it a reality.. Imagine all the people sharing all the world…
Insider
Excellent!
HOWIE MILES
If there are no drug reps the process of getting drugs to the market may become cheaper? This is my assumption. Any opinions?
Lisa Van Syckel
I would love to Imagine that John Lennon was still amongst us!
Any comments from Yoko yet?…….
roccaas
I’m a rep, have been for 12 years with a variety of companies. I believe that my first duty is the fair balanced dissemination of information (good and bad) to my prescribers so that they can make an informed medical decision regarding the health and well being of their patients. I’ve had drugs given Black Box warnings/pulled from the market, and I’m out there from hour 1 giving the overworked MD’s the information they need to make these decisions.
MD’s are THE most targeted demographic by anyone wanting to sell anything in the U.S. They are overworked. This goes for other practicioners (NP’s, PA’s, RN’s, LPN’s, patient techs, etc.)
My second goal is to try to get my product prescribed in the appropriate patients based on the practitioner’s knowledge of the treatments available for various diseases and conditions.
Sales are important. They have to be; just look at your retirement account. You need those companies to earn profits to help your financial situation.
Just like bad cops; there are (many) bad drug reps. I despise them and hope they get burned out on the industry when they cannot twist a Doctor’s arm to get Rx’s for their next 10 patients!
I’ve seen them come and go; I’ve seen them fired for lying to Doctors, I’ve seen them fired for selling on margin. I say good riddance.
My value to a practitioner is no better than the truth that I tell about the good and bad of any product that may help a patient. If that isn’t good enough, then I’m not doing my job.
I can promise you that the price of drugs will NOT come down with the abolition of all sales reps. How much has the price come down for your phone service when the Bell System was broken apart in 1984 (and put back together in 2007). Is your underwear any cheaper because it is made overseas and put mill workers in NC out of work?
If a car isn’t the right one for you, make that decision and go elsewhere. Don’t blame the salesperson for trying to get you to see the advantages of their vehicle.
As an industry, we’ve come a long way since the PhARMA guidelines were implemented in 2000. At the local level we cannot entertain, wine/dine, golf, fish, go to ballgames with our practitioners. Please believe me that this does not mean our companies do NOT do the same thing on a national level with BIG money.
Want to bring down the price of drugs and bring sanity to the Rx market? Ban all advertising in the public domain. When I’m elected King, all drug ads will be ONLY disease information ads “brought to you by your friends at Pfizer/GSK/Merck, etc.
That is where the big money is going along with ads in Professional Journals. Take away those ads however, and “Lancet”, “NEJM”, etc. will go away also!
Just trying to keep it real and in the patient’s best interest.
Hypocrisy rules
This is perhaps a good idea but it will not happen. Maybe we can settle with just number of sales reps that are really needed for what they need to do just as in any “normal” business.
Someone already invented the “Multiple Sales Forces of Mass Promotion”. This is the big pharma invention where they use up to 10 sales forces to sell their product. Not because they have so many drugs but to sell one single drug to same targeted doctors by 5,6,7,8,9,10, sales reps in every sales territory in the country.
MSFoMP are still used by most big pharma. There are some indications this will be dismantled but only to some degree. Novartis for instance still have 6 sales forces that sell their Diovan in one country. We imagine it is not different in USA but they have more than 6 reps in every GP territory. Other do not differ.
Can you &*^%$##$ imagine as a doctor to have all these reps lining up to see you and waste your time on the daily basis? Unless you have some “extra” benefits you would not stand it.
If anyone does not believe this, invade any of the bigpharma countries and we guarantee you wil find the MSFoMP unlke it was the case in Iraq.
Someone
Roccaas,
Sorry, but your suggestions about keeping “it real and in the best interest of the patients” are indications of borderline delusional thinking.
In fact it is scary that you actually believe, and that there are doctors out there that might actually rely on, information from drug reps to treat their patients.
What doctors and patients really need is un biased information on disease, and drug treatment programs that are NOT industry sponsored. You know as well as anyone, that money spent on these programs from industry are done so with the money from the marketing department and therefore it is also linked to improving return on investments and growing market share.
As for costs, well if drug companies would just “do the right thing” then they wouldn’t have to charge so much for the drugs in order to build up their war chest for when they get caught in law suits because of all the crazy lies they spin. Haven’t they learned yet that paying everyone to shut up and look the other way doesn’t work anymore.
As for trying to draw comparisons with the healthcare industry and underwear companies? It underscores what is fundamentally wrong - making healthcare a capitalistic venture is what destroys it. People will argue, “well if people can’t make money on it no one will want to be involved in it”. Good, because it seems to me the people who are in it for the money now are the ones making a big mess of it - they should leave and make their money elsewhere in another industry where folks lives are not at stake.
Healthcare and education are areas that should be left alone.
The one dimensional thinking of Industry needs to stop…
Chris
I think what is ‘delusional’ is the idea that if the pharma industry went away that all would be rosy and the ethicists and providers would be happy ever after. Healthcare is already a capitalistic venture but maybe ‘Someone’ is saying that all such ventures are wrong? That’s a differnet one altogether.
roccaas
If you don’t want industry studies of disease and treatment, get out your checkbook for the tax man. I’m sure HHS, NIH, etc. will be glad to pump up their budgets to handle ALL drug studies on going.
The American model was based on thinking that came out of WWII and Eisenhower-Government will do some basic research (Govt. and University), and allow the Capitalistic guidance of private enterprise bring the best ideas to market.
I’ve always felt that if you don’t like the system, don’t buy the drugs or the stocks in the companies that make the drugs, or the Mutual Funds and 401K’s that buy the stocks in the companies that make the drugs.
You can always go on the third world system-don’t treat the disease because no one has a vested interest in making a go of an enterprise that can offer help; or do like many countries and flout US patent laws and rip off what the investor and American taxpayer paid to develop the treatment.
The money issue around medicine will always be a part of our system, especially since we the taxpayers have allowed the growing majority of our citizens virtually free medicine and treatment (Medicare/Caid).
Unfortunately, American often get distracted by little items: why do we spend so much on snake oil/St. John’s Wart/etc. from the store at the mall that has NEVER had a double blind placebo controlled study to prove/disprove the validity of the treatment. We don’t spend anything on getting soft drink machines out of Middle Schools (there is your Type 2 diabetes demographic for the future) or taking generally good care of ourselves. Similar to our preoccupation with ATM fees and gas prices, but little interest in taxation with little representation; we can’t see the forest for the trees.
Two quotes come to mind:
“No Buck Rodgers, no Bucks” Ed Harris in “The Right Stuff”
“We are not communists here are we….” Don Bardzini - Godfather 1.
Thanks for a lively debate!
Melody
roccaas, you state: rip off what the investor and American taxpayer paid to develop the treatment.
This has been done for a long time, and is part of the problem now facing our universities. Taxpayers support universities (along with tuition, fees, and sports-licensing); when taxpayer-funded research becomes economically viable, big pharma steps in and reaps huge rewards. The university may benefit by licensing arrangements, but do any of the TAXPAYERS, whose dollars kept the doors open, get a return on THEIR investment? I live in Florida . . . and to-date, I have not seen any ROI from the discovery of Taxol at a nearby university.
The other problem you fail to address is the biased research that comes from universities and other research centers when BigPharma underwrites clinical trials. The manner in which studies are framed, the make-up of the studies’ participants, and the results are more often than not overseen by BigPharma in one way or another. How doctors can be expected to discern credible information from skewed information is a mystery.
Someone
Roccaas,
There are 42 million Americans not being treated - but from the sounds of your post - who cares?
The point being made is that there are many ways to treat patients that might not necessarily mean the use of drugs. Haven’t you ever thought of how it is that we can make certain diseases chronic and deliver palliative treatment, yet we seem to stop just short of really curing these illnesses. Could it be that there just isn’t enough money for that, or could it be that the capitalists in this industry won’t let it happen.
I agree with Melody, many of these drugs were “invented” in public institutions with tax payers money.
As for the third world comment - perhaps you would like to read about the Gleevec India patent case. Very often what keeps people in the third world sick is the very rich nations charging the same outrageous prices for their drugs in the poor countries. But then again, according to you, if you are poor and can’t afford it “Tough Luck”?
And lastly, honestly resorting to quoting lines from a movie? Hmm how genuine…..
roccaas
I agree, we do have some crazy notions in this country about medicine, but we still have the best and most viable system. Our payors won’t put out a dime for stop smoking Tx’s, but we pay out the wazoo for HTN, Diabetes, Dialysis, etc. Same could be said for weightloss drugs, obesity is our #1 health concern in America, almost everything flows from our bad habits, food, cigs, driving fast, booze, etc.
I cannot seem to put my finger on any lifechanging treatments developed in the 2nd World (old Soviet bloc), or the 3rd World (China’s toothpaste loaded with anti-freeze).
I do recall that Pfizer sent$millions to Africa to fight River Blindness (?) caused by flea bites.
Look, this stuff isn’t cheap to find, make, distribute, study, monitor, re-study, improve. Take away American (and Western) incentives to do this work, and where will you and Mr. Lennon go to find cures or palliations? China/India have obvious potential, but they MUST have a system of laws that works, private property, the right to speak up, and CAPITAL markets.
As long as most peoples healthcare is paid for by someone else (Medicare/Caid-taxpayers, commercial insurance-your employeer), why take care of yourself? They make a pill to fix my problem don’t they? I sure hope they are there when my end of the babyboom hits 65.
I’d like to try this with my homeowner’s insurance-will they cut my grass, fix the plumbing, repaint the house; hey I pay for my insurance and I want more than flood and fire coverage.
I’m all for opening up coverage for anyone who can get it regardless of employment status if it is managed by private industry, not the Government (think of your last visit to the Tag office). This is another holdover from WWII when employeers (shipyards, munitions, etc.) had a government mandated wage scale-they offered health insurance as a benefit to get better workers. Kaiser Perm. is the last of these worker health plans. That idea needs to go.
Please let me know where ANY of you believe this funding for future drug research will come from if not from the Pharma industry working with government research/universities. If you have a better plan for financing the search for Tx’s that treat grevious disease, now is the time to step forward-you have 28 folks trying to be the next President, maybe it is time for a change.
I enjoy this back and forth and hope it keeps up. Thanks Ed for allowing us to converse civilly.
RXrep
riight imagine no companies, no samples…people will surely be happy. Because they’ll be dead… i’m sure you all as a population you all are just dying to whip out your checkbooks to pay for the R&D that goes into producing these life saving medications. You whine and cry about costs when all you have to do is fork over a measly copay because most of you have insurance. Heaven forbid you get sick, then you rush to the doctor and ask for a fix…which more than likely is going to include medications.
However I bet you don’t know that EVERY drug company has assistance programs that are FREE where patients can obtain their prescriptions for FREE, no questions asked. They send millions overseas to fight river blindness, malaria, and other diseases that we here in American don’t worry about because of drugs, and vaccines. Do you really think your physician knows it all, you think they are constantly keeping up on the hundreds of new drugs hitting the market, how to dose, them, when to dose them, and for whom. NOT EXACTLY, these people are human too! They have families, and lives and lets not forget patients that they are shuffling through their offices like cattle just to make an honest living because of the rising insurance costs that they have to incur just to protect themselves from the sue happy American patient who will lawyer up at the drop of an adverse event. Lets not forget people what pharmaceuticals do for us all and they huge risk the companies take on bringing these to market, and that when you ingest these drugs YOU ARE ALTERING THE CHEMICAL MAKEUP OF YOUR BODY…they are not perfect. Get off your high horses people and be thankful there are pharmaceuticals for what ails us and that we are not dropping off like flies because of a lack of medicine…
So my advice to you is sit down, shut up, or move to a third world country and when you contract something because there are not enough drugs to cure what ails you…don’t come whining.
quitwhining
Riight imagine no companies, no samples…people will surely be happy. Because they’ll be dead… i’m sure you all as a population you all are just dying to whip out your checkbooks to pay for the R&D that goes into producing these life saving medications. You whine and cry about costs when all you have to do is fork over a measly copay because most of you have insurance. Heaven forbid you get sick, then you rush to the doctor and ask for a fix…which more than likely is going to include medications.
However I bet you don’t know that EVERY drug company has assistance programs that are FREE where patients can obtain their prescriptions for FREE, no questions asked. Companies send millions overseas to fight river blindness, malaria, and other diseases that we here in American don’t worry about because of drugs, and vaccines. I don’t see many blockbuster life saving, more cost-efficiant pharmaceuticals coming from outside the US that aren’t loaded with poison, or even better placebo pills.
Do you really think your physician knows it all, you think they are constantly keeping up on the hundreds of new drugs hitting the market, how to dose them, when to dose them, what the side effects are and who can’t have them…??? KEEP DREAMING. These people are human too! They have families, and lives, a business to run and lets not forget patients that they are shuffling through their offices like cattle just to make an honest living because of the rising insurance costs that they have to incur just to protect themselves from the sue happy American patient who will lawyer up at the drop of an adverse event. And then there’s the managed care and HMO’s that dictate to a doc which drugs they can and cannot write for patients, because the doctor gets a nasty letter if they write too many “non-preferred” drugs for their patients. HEAVEN FORBID A PHYSICIAN WRITE A DRUG HE OR SHE WISHES TO WRITE!
Lets not forget people what pharmaceuticals do for us all and they huge risk the companies take on bringing these to market, and that when you ingest these drugs YOU ARE ALTERING THE CHEMICAL MAKEUP OF YOUR BODY…they are not perfect. Get off your high horses people and be thankful there are pharmaceuticals for what ails us and that we are not dropping off like flies because of a lack of medicine…
So my advice to you is sit down, shut up, or move to another country.
P.S. I don’t think my $6.00 panera sandwich lunch has much influence on a physician, these are intelligent people a sandwich is not going to brainwash them into robots.
Ed Silverman
Hi folks,
Just a quick reminder that the song is a parody. And I made a point of noting that this was posted just for the sake of a few minutes of fun, albeit at the expense of drug reps. But we like drug reps. Some of our best sources are drug reps. So in deference to drug reps everywhere, we say ‘thank you’ for allowing us to indulge ourselves.
Cheers
ed
PharmaRep
I got a good laugh out of it. Well done! You have to be able to laugh at yourself, that is until your job and livelyhood are on the line… However, I know at the end of the day I can feel good about my intent and efforts as a pharma rep. Enjoy the donuts…
Someone
This has been an interesting thread and it has certainly pointed out how little the reps really know about life and reality - another good reason why thankfully my doctor doesn’t rely on reps to “educate” them.
It isn’t so much has having reps is a bad thing, the cost to maintain the facade of what reps do is a large part of what costs the drugs to be so pricey.
Sorry if the reps reading this are offended, but as someone who has been in the industry for a long time - well I call like it is….
We need medical information people - but sales reps are redundant….
Have a great weekend!
truthman30
Classic..
Better than the orginal if you ask me..
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