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	<title>Comments on: Prizes, Not Patents, For Drug Discovery</title>
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	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23691</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23691</guid>
		<description>Todd &#38; Bob--

Did Mr. Silverman appoint you as guardians/gatekeepers of his site. I haven't seen that you have contributed much other than to promote the pharma and medical businesses, so I suspect you have a vested interest in directing discussions. 

I have lived with a fellow who has had insulin-dependent diabetes for 50 years. He, like numbers of other diabetics, cannot tolerate rDNA insulin. A recent book published by Prof.Med Arthur Teuscher, MD and practicing endocrinologist, does back-up all I have mentioned regarding the pharmaceutical industry and their lack of caring. rDNA insulin analogs were created because of their patentability/price rewards. No need or benefit for these products has ever been proven--except for the profitability.

To think that the insulin-industry/diabetes hold a unique position . . . that WE are the only ones being duped/enslaved by BigPharma . . .would reveal only an unwarranted naivete.

Deniers or enablers or advocates (whatever label you choose for yourself) need only look to the scientific-misconduct site to see how nasty this industry has become. But I suspect that you have learned from your betters that when a message has merit, you first ignore it . . . then villify the messenger. How very PC of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd &amp; Bob&#8211;</p>
<p>Did Mr. Silverman appoint you as guardians/gatekeepers of his site. I haven&#8217;t seen that you have contributed much other than to promote the pharma and medical businesses, so I suspect you have a vested interest in directing discussions. </p>
<p>I have lived with a fellow who has had insulin-dependent diabetes for 50 years. He, like numbers of other diabetics, cannot tolerate rDNA insulin. A recent book published by Prof.Med Arthur Teuscher, MD and practicing endocrinologist, does back-up all I have mentioned regarding the pharmaceutical industry and their lack of caring. rDNA insulin analogs were created because of their patentability/price rewards. No need or benefit for these products has ever been proven&#8211;except for the profitability.</p>
<p>To think that the insulin-industry/diabetes hold a unique position . . . that WE are the only ones being duped/enslaved by BigPharma . . .would reveal only an unwarranted naivete.</p>
<p>Deniers or enablers or advocates (whatever label you choose for yourself) need only look to the scientific-misconduct site to see how nasty this industry has become. But I suspect that you have learned from your betters that when a message has merit, you first ignore it . . . then villify the messenger. How very PC of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23643</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23643</guid>
		<description>Todd-Hahaha

Melody and Lisa Van Psycho are two of our resident crusaders.
They both need to find a man, or change some batteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd-Hahaha</p>
<p>Melody and Lisa Van Psycho are two of our resident crusaders.<br />
They both need to find a man, or change some batteries.</p>
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		<title>By: TODD</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23615</link>
		<dc:creator>TODD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23615</guid>
		<description>Melody,

Do you post the same repetitive comments on other blogs or is pharmalot blessed with your comments.  Have you noticed no one else has jumped on the bandwagon for old insulin?  GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON!  The argument does not even matter, it is gone and no one is bringing it back.  Do you have any other thoughts on the entire world of medicine?  Or are you a single, 1 thought person.  I am so impressed when people champion causes in which they have not been touched.  For instance a white person supporting sickle cell research and care.  That shows actual compassion for others outside of your family - consider broadening you horizon.  I recommend prostate cancer awareness and bone marrow screening for potential donation to a patient with blood cancers.  Do something productive, join the registry, save a life.  It is fast, easy and life saving.

www.marrow.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melody,</p>
<p>Do you post the same repetitive comments on other blogs or is pharmalot blessed with your comments.  Have you noticed no one else has jumped on the bandwagon for old insulin?  GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON!  The argument does not even matter, it is gone and no one is bringing it back.  Do you have any other thoughts on the entire world of medicine?  Or are you a single, 1 thought person.  I am so impressed when people champion causes in which they have not been touched.  For instance a white person supporting sickle cell research and care.  That shows actual compassion for others outside of your family - consider broadening you horizon.  I recommend prostate cancer awareness and bone marrow screening for potential donation to a patient with blood cancers.  Do something productive, join the registry, save a life.  It is fast, easy and life saving.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marrow.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.marrow.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23614</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23614</guid>
		<description>Heaven forbid that researchers like Banting step up to the plate. This Nobel prize winner sold the patent for insulin to the University of Toronto for one dollar. But that was then . . . and this is now; only Wall Street, economics, ROIs, bloated executive salaries/perks, maintaining the status quo are used as metrics for success. To hell with patients!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heaven forbid that researchers like Banting step up to the plate. This Nobel prize winner sold the patent for insulin to the University of Toronto for one dollar. But that was then . . . and this is now; only Wall Street, economics, ROIs, bloated executive salaries/perks, maintaining the status quo are used as metrics for success. To hell with patients!</p>
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		<title>By: Grief</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23528</link>
		<dc:creator>Grief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23528</guid>
		<description>PHARM- alot!!  These responses make it clear to me that only Pharms responded to Senator Sanders' idea.  Senator Sanders was the only person in the Senate to vote against the watered-down PDUFA/Drug Safety Bill, a can of worms by the time it got raked over the coals by Pharma.

I'm for anything that takes away the power Pharma currently has - false information from cheerleader drug reps, misleading and boring DTC ads, bribery of Congress, riding heard over the FDA, and of course - should we even mention the thousands of deaths and complications caused by drugs with hidden, lethal side effects.

It is obvious that everyone above cares only about Wall St. Who among you care about human lives?

Congratulations , Senator Sanders, for a novel and ethical idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PHARM- alot!!  These responses make it clear to me that only Pharms responded to Senator Sanders&#8217; idea.  Senator Sanders was the only person in the Senate to vote against the watered-down PDUFA/Drug Safety Bill, a can of worms by the time it got raked over the coals by Pharma.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m for anything that takes away the power Pharma currently has - false information from cheerleader drug reps, misleading and boring DTC ads, bribery of Congress, riding heard over the FDA, and of course - should we even mention the thousands of deaths and complications caused by drugs with hidden, lethal side effects.</p>
<p>It is obvious that everyone above cares only about Wall St. Who among you care about human lives?</p>
<p>Congratulations , Senator Sanders, for a novel and ethical idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Atlex</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23090</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23090</guid>
		<description>In the end, ask any financial analyst and you'll find that any scheme of this type will result in an immediate devaluation of pharmaceutical stocks.  This approach takes an already risky financial model and makes it even riskier.  If that's the end goal--devalue the pharma industry--then this model is perfect.  Unfortunately, there is no guarantee or even strong speculative evidence that this would drive innovation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the end, ask any financial analyst and you&#8217;ll find that any scheme of this type will result in an immediate devaluation of pharmaceutical stocks.  This approach takes an already risky financial model and makes it even riskier.  If that&#8217;s the end goal&#8211;devalue the pharma industry&#8211;then this model is perfect.  Unfortunately, there is no guarantee or even strong speculative evidence that this would drive innovation.</p>
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		<title>By: James Love</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23070</link>
		<dc:creator>James Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-23070</guid>
		<description>The Medical Innovation Prize Fund (MIPF) approach is a different, and better set of incentives for drug developers.  People can argue whether or not .6 percent of GDP is the right amount from the US, but it is a lot of money.  The main point is to delink R&#38;D incentives from prices, and more efficiently design rewards.  Follow-on innovations, including approvals for new indications, would be rewarded, for the impact of those improvements on health outcomes.  

Kremer's 1998 paper looked at patent buy-out strategies, which is a related but different approach, that is still tied to the possible profits from a monopoly, and a willingness to pay critera that now drives too much investment into "me too" products that are not important medically.

The 10 year pay-out roughly corresponds to the effective period of market exclusivity under current market exclusivity rules.  This is a 10 payday approach, where drug developers start getting money right away (year 1), but annual payments are adjusted each year based upon new evidence of the usefulness of the products.  Some have suggested a 15 year payoff schedule.  The shorter term is designed to give investors a faster payoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Medical Innovation Prize Fund (MIPF) approach is a different, and better set of incentives for drug developers.  People can argue whether or not .6 percent of GDP is the right amount from the US, but it is a lot of money.  The main point is to delink R&amp;D incentives from prices, and more efficiently design rewards.  Follow-on innovations, including approvals for new indications, would be rewarded, for the impact of those improvements on health outcomes.  </p>
<p>Kremer&#8217;s 1998 paper looked at patent buy-out strategies, which is a related but different approach, that is still tied to the possible profits from a monopoly, and a willingness to pay critera that now drives too much investment into &#8220;me too&#8221; products that are not important medically.</p>
<p>The 10 year pay-out roughly corresponds to the effective period of market exclusivity under current market exclusivity rules.  This is a 10 payday approach, where drug developers start getting money right away (year 1), but annual payments are adjusted each year based upon new evidence of the usefulness of the products.  Some have suggested a 15 year payoff schedule.  The shorter term is designed to give investors a faster payoff.</p>
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		<title>By: EEJ</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22956</link>
		<dc:creator>EEJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22956</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with KP and Praveen above.

Plenty of ideas sound great in theory, but putting something like this into practice is a fool's gamble that has multiple inherent problems.

How about instead, we actually have the company applying for a patent pay the fees of the patent office, which would help to ensure that they can allocate the proper resources to each patent?

Not sure of the accuracy of the data, but I recently saw somewhere that a patent reviewer in the patent office has something like 48 hours to review each patent, which may be a few sheets of paper, or may be 20 boxes of information. How many of those boxes do you think actually get opened and reviewed in 48 hours?

The scope of the patent should determine how much the potential patent holder pays.

Oh, and let's not forget that there needs to be a huge change in the way they are evaluated, specifically in the case of "me-too" drugs. 

The new Soma 250 is just a lower dose of Soma, but somehow the manufacturer appears to have gotten some new type of patent protection, or extended patent protection. This makes no sense!

Also, in regards to part of Dave Hamil's statement above, I have to disagree that marketing and sales are necessary parts of getting doctor's to use a new product. Sure, it may help, but if there's a new drug out that has better outcomes with less potential negative effects (including exhorbitant costs), Doctors will use them regardless. 

Informal studies have shown that doctors really don't know what each prescription medication costs, and ARE influenced by all those sales reps pushing their biased materials in their face each week. 

Contrary to popular belief, doctors do participate in CME events, read peer-reviewed articles and journals, and study the studies that are released.....but they also accept free gifts, meals and other such items in return for information on "this new drug that's so great".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with KP and Praveen above.</p>
<p>Plenty of ideas sound great in theory, but putting something like this into practice is a fool&#8217;s gamble that has multiple inherent problems.</p>
<p>How about instead, we actually have the company applying for a patent pay the fees of the patent office, which would help to ensure that they can allocate the proper resources to each patent?</p>
<p>Not sure of the accuracy of the data, but I recently saw somewhere that a patent reviewer in the patent office has something like 48 hours to review each patent, which may be a few sheets of paper, or may be 20 boxes of information. How many of those boxes do you think actually get opened and reviewed in 48 hours?</p>
<p>The scope of the patent should determine how much the potential patent holder pays.</p>
<p>Oh, and let&#8217;s not forget that there needs to be a huge change in the way they are evaluated, specifically in the case of &#8220;me-too&#8221; drugs. </p>
<p>The new Soma 250 is just a lower dose of Soma, but somehow the manufacturer appears to have gotten some new type of patent protection, or extended patent protection. This makes no sense!</p>
<p>Also, in regards to part of Dave Hamil&#8217;s statement above, I have to disagree that marketing and sales are necessary parts of getting doctor&#8217;s to use a new product. Sure, it may help, but if there&#8217;s a new drug out that has better outcomes with less potential negative effects (including exhorbitant costs), Doctors will use them regardless. </p>
<p>Informal studies have shown that doctors really don&#8217;t know what each prescription medication costs, and ARE influenced by all those sales reps pushing their biased materials in their face each week. </p>
<p>Contrary to popular belief, doctors do participate in CME events, read peer-reviewed articles and journals, and study the studies that are released&#8230;..but they also accept free gifts, meals and other such items in return for information on &#8220;this new drug that&#8217;s so great&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: KP</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22880</link>
		<dc:creator>KP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22880</guid>
		<description>Erghh... I'm in to blowing up the system, but anything thats going to take the power away from the consumer and give it to the central gov't....  I'd prefer a model that gets closer to letting the whole free-market economy thing work, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erghh&#8230; I&#8217;m in to blowing up the system, but anything thats going to take the power away from the consumer and give it to the central gov&#8217;t&#8230;.  I&#8217;d prefer a model that gets closer to letting the whole free-market economy thing work, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Praveen Tipirneni</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22868</link>
		<dc:creator>Praveen Tipirneni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2007/10/prizes-not-patents-for-drug-discovery/#comment-22868</guid>
		<description>As a drug developer myself, I can think of a number of problems with this system - but here are just a few.
1) Incentives to the patent owner.  You did describe above the need for an owner to get a quick ROI.  In this proposal, the ROI would not be for at least 10 years - the time to go from a patent to a drug not only on the market but one that shows improved health outcomes.  Currently, the IPO market as well as licensing market/M&#38;A (and others) allow owners to get payoffs much quicker than that (sometimes even within just a few years).
2) How about the stacking royalties?  Let's say an inventor developed an antibody to VEGF.  To practice that invention requires a number of stacking licenses, often approaching double digit royalties.  The inventor gets the prize - who pays all the underlying license holders.
 
Just a few of the issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a drug developer myself, I can think of a number of problems with this system - but here are just a few.<br />
1) Incentives to the patent owner.  You did describe above the need for an owner to get a quick ROI.  In this proposal, the ROI would not be for at least 10 years - the time to go from a patent to a drug not only on the market but one that shows improved health outcomes.  Currently, the IPO market as well as licensing market/M&amp;A (and others) allow owners to get payoffs much quicker than that (sometimes even within just a few years).<br />
2) How about the stacking royalties?  Let&#8217;s say an inventor developed an antibody to VEGF.  To practice that invention requires a number of stacking licenses, often approaching double digit royalties.  The inventor gets the prize - who pays all the underlying license holders.</p>
<p>Just a few of the issues.</p>
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