Chantix And Suicidal Behavior: The Numbers, Please
89 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // November 29th, 2007 // 6:44 am
This is a classic case of publicity prompting reports of side effects. More than 5,000 adverse events were reported to the FDA after the widely publicized Albrecht case in Texas two months ago, according to WFAA, a Dallas/Ft. Worth television station.
For those who don’t recall, a musician named Carter Albrecht was in a drunken rage and banged on the door of a homeowner, who feared an intruder, and shot and killed the young man. Although Albrecht was later found to have tested for a high level of alcohol, he’d also begun taking Pfizer’s Chantix, the smoking-cessation drug, a week earlier and complained of vivid dreams.
Ultimately, the Dallas medical examiner ruled the Pfizer smoking-cessation drug didn’t play a role in the death, although there was controversy over the decision, given that the body was never tested for the med. More recently, the FDA reacted to reports from Pfizer of suicidal thoughts and aggressive and erratic behavior in patients who have taken Chantix. And so the agency is reviewing the cases, along with a number of reports from the media and internet sites.
After the Albrecht case was first reported, the FDA seems to have been flooded with adverse event reports. A computer disc was sent with 5,157 complaints, according to the TV station, which filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the agency. Suicide was reported 55 times. Suicidal thoughts were mentioned in 199 cases and 417 people complained of depression. There were also hundreds of mentions of anger, aggression, amnesia, hallucination and homicidal thoughts. An FDA spokeswoman told the station that 100 specific psychotic incidents in the US are being examined.
Brian
Sounds like quitting the nicotine habit is tough..who knew??? I agree with Ed..Keep smoking…it’s safer
Tom
I don’t work for Pfizer and I have no idea if either Chantix, nicotine withdrawal syndrome, or both are behind the number of reports cited. To lend some perspective though: Chantix is linked to a patient support hotline. That means thousands of patients calling every week to have open-ended discussions with counselors. During these interactions, pharma company sponsors train the counselors to document every negative medical symptom a patient has and treat it as an “adverse event”. There is no distinction between what the drug may have caused and what the patient may be experiencing as a result of their medical condition (such as psychiatric/behavioral nicotine withdrawal symptoms). Patients are likely to mention all kinds of medical problems that are underlying when somebody takes the time to listen to them. The challenge becomes to tease out what may be drug-related from what is not. This is at best an extremely diffult task, even for experts in drug safety. Compounding the difficulty with Chantix, I suspect, is that it’s often impossible for the pharma company or the FDA to obtain useful medical information from consumer complaints. These reports have limited medical value, but they sit in the FDA database, where anyone can easily find and cite them as “proof” of a dangerous drug. Fortunately, the new FDA Amendments Act will expand the agency’s ability to mine huge, external databases and better sort real adverse events from coincidental events.
May
Smoking is also a suicide. It is a painful, miserable and costly suicide that effects your families and friends. So, why not? Take Chantix. You might have suicidal thoughts, but with the help and support of your love ones, you might down necessarily go down that way (I mean suicide).
May
Smoking is also a suicide. It is a painful, miserable and costly suicide that effects your families and friends. So, why not? Take Chantix. You might have suicidal thoughts, but with the help and support from your love ones, you might not necessarily go down that way (I mean suicide).
Laurie
“I suspect, is that it’s often impossible for the pharma company or the FDA to obtain useful medical information from consumer complaints.”
So where would “useful” information on a drug reaction come from, if not from the consumer taking the drug? I agree that preexisting psychiatric diagnosis should be taken into consideration, but if there is no prexisting condition then the consumer report is critical.
Quitting nicotine is not easy. It has been associated with mood swings and nastiness forever..but suicide and homocide?..not something we’ve heard as a common reaction before.
Jim
I took Chantix for four weeks and I suffered from adverse reactions which I attribute to my use of Chantix. I reported my reactions to the FDA and to Pfizer. My reporting was not based upon the sensationlist story out of Dallas. The fact was that individual was on drunken binge and that may have had more to do with his death then Chantix. Stories of that nature cloud the real dangers of the drug use, most of my symptoms are physiological and i am still in the process of finding out their cause. I may be wrong, they may nothing to with Chantix but I doubt it, prior to using this drug I did not have any physiological symptoms, they only occurred after almost 4 weeks after taking the drug and have continued to progress.
Natalie
Wow! I expected something to come up like this. I chose to wait a year before taking it just to see what some of the side effects would be. I’m on it now, my 3rd rx. And it’s great! Even tho I have not quit smoking….it seems to have awakened my brain. No more brain fog and a heightened sense of awareness. I am doing alot of preaching to my kids these days and even my husband. The work, studies and home responsibilites are mainly what I keep on them about. I had really slacked off and I guess just got tired of trying to do everything for all of them. 29 years of motherhood so far and it will be 32 yrs of service for me getting them all to age 18….if I live that long.
Lee Ann
I took Chantix for about 5 weeks, cut down on smoking but did not quit. I also went beserk on any one who crossed my path! I was so mean and nasty, my husband called my doctor and we all decided to get off the medecine.
Brian
Lee Ann
So you proved you are addicted to nicotine. I assume you are happier smoking. Keep it up but you can’t blame chantix. All it does is reduce the effect of nicotine.
Laurie
Brian, do you deny even the possibility of an adverse reactions with every drug, or just the ones that hit the news? Anytime you alter brain chemistry the reaction is as individual as that brain chemistry.
Brian
Chantix interacts with the same receptor as nicotine. It blocks the effect of smoking nicotine but gives a reduced effect using the same machinery in the brain. It is unlikely to cause any off target impact. What some folks are not factoring in is the pain of withdrawal. Some have it worse than others. Just because you are on a drug and have issues doesn’t mean the drug is causing it. If you stopped smoking “cold turkey†and began to feel bad or had these side effects you would just start smoking again. Smoking doesn’t immediately help when you are on chantix because it blocks the effect partially. People should talk with their doctor and or counselor about their side effects. Try to remember how bad the side effects of smoking are.
Atlex
Laurie,
I think what Brian is trying to imply (in a way that only he can) is that not everything vcan be blamed on the drug. While Chantix does indeed have side effects (as can everything we put in our bodies), not everything you experience while on Chantix is caused by the drug. For instance, a very common side effect of nicotine withdrawal is irritability (there are many more including headache; nausea; constipation or diarrhea; falling heart rate and blood pressure; fatigue, drowsiness and insomnia; difficulty concentrating; anxiety; depression; tension; increased appetite). In addition, according the NIH, nicotine withdrawal can lead to relapse of major depression, bipolar disorder, or substance abuse problems. Unfortunately, with this list of symptoms associated with nicotine withdrawal, it is hard to determine if a person is experience a side effect of the drug or a potential effect of withdrawal
In the end, what LeAnne experienced was very possibly nicotine withdrawal.
Laurie
When have you seen documented homicide as a result of nicotine withdrawal? Irritability, absolutely. The brain does not operate in a vacuum. You change one neurotransmitter, you potentially change them all.
From the drug insert:
“Varenicline blocks the ability of nicotine
to activate α4β2 receptors and thus to stimulate the central nervous mesolimbic dopamine system,
believed to be the neuronal mechanism underlying reinforcement and reward experienced upon
smoking.”
The “believed” leaves some doubt as the the definitive action that they claim. Which in turn leaves potential bad reactions as a possibility.
As for the relapse of bipolar and depression, convenient answer, but if you read some of the Chantix reaction stories, there was absolutely no history of either in most of them.
Why is it so hard to believe that a drug that alters brain chemistry can have adverse reactions for some people?
Laurie
Look, some people do very well taking this drug, others not well at all. Once again, it comes down to being fully informed of risk vs benefit.
Brian
Are you saying this is the first time someone who has quit smoking has been shot after drinking alcohol? You might want to re-check the database. Also , the same brain machinery in use here whether it’s nicotine or chantix only at a lower level with the latter. It’s called withdrawal and it’s not fun for anyone…
Jack
Perhaps we’re all of us suicidal and homicidal to some extent and the thing that helps us manage through bad situations is the brain chemical that is regulated by those Chantix blocking receptors mentioned here. Perhaps nicotine can be carcinogenic, habit-forming, and mentally therapeutic at the same time. All I know, is that my brother-in-law shot himself through the heart with a shotgun in September, only days after Albrecht died. He was alone in the woods and wasn’t bothering any neighbors. He died with a mostly empty pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket and a half-empty box of Chantix on his desk. In the days leading to his death, I talked to him and tried to figure out what was driving him crazy. Because of the conviction of Albrecht’s girl-friend, I think I now understand what happened. I believe that it’ll happen to fewer people because of this publicity, supported by those of us who reported our Chantix experiences to the FDA.
Laurie
Exactly Jack. We know so little about brain function, and we are seeing that changing one aspect can change alot. But sadly we continue to see the “blame the patient” mentality, instead of a realization that drugs aren’t perfect. I’m sorry to hear about your brother in law.
Brian
I agree many severely depressed people do try to self medicate with nicotine and alcohol. Take that treatment away and they risk suicide. I’m not sure that even the patient understands what is wrong with them. Normal brain function does not include being addicted to nicotine and or alcohol. You can’t say someone who smokes is normal. Not sure what to do other than suggest seeing a psychiatrist before things get out of control. It’s better to find the real cause of things than to lash out at the rest of us in anger..Just a suggestion
Laurie
” It’s better to find the real cause of things than to lash out at the rest of us in anger..Just a suggestion.”
I don’t see anyone lashing out at “you”. Just questioning why the possibility of a drug being a problem for some people is such a stretch. If you look at the stories out there on Chantix reactions, these people were not smoking because they were depressed/psychotic/schizophrenic. Most had picked up the habit as teens trying to be “cool”. Most had tried to quite smoking before, MANY times, and were unsuccesful. But they don’t report the side effects in those attempts as the same as with Chantix. Hopefully we will see the FDA look into these reactions and their prevalence in Chantix use, especially since these types of reactions are included in the adverse reaction section of the Chantix drug insert. What needs to be determined is how frequent these reactions are, now that Chantix is on the open market.
Brian
They didn’t feel good when they were not smoking so they started once again. The longer they went without a smoke the worse they would have felt. That’s why they can’t quit and it’s only a little easier on chantix for them. Chantix blocks the effect of smoking. It might just be too much for some folks. I feel bad for them because their life WILL BE SHORTER due to nicotine addiction. You don’t know why folks started smoking when they were teens but I bet there was a reason. ADHD, depression, anxiety, low self esteem. It had to be something. I don’t smoke, never needed to.. How about you?
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Gotta PHD after your name?.. Or are you a Sales Rep. who is hard up for cash. With numbers like this, one can foresee future layoffs.
Laurie
Brian, your logic is so distorted that it’s not even worth commenting on. People have been quitting smoking for years, by the millions. Yet you didn’t hear the stories that are being heard today. Irritable, nasty, insomnia…yes. Psychotic, hallucinating, suicidal, NO.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I hope, for your sake, you never have a bad reaction to a drug. Remember, it won’t be the drug, it will be you, because by your logic, drugs have no downsides.
Brian
Not many people quit smoking except by dying. Look it up. Ever hear of Mark Twain. “It’s easy to quit smoking , I’ve done it a thousand times”. I agree that you represent mainstream opinion but just look around and see how intellectually weak that is. BTW, You realize nicotine is a mind altering drug..right? If people are addicted to nicotine, would you call that a bad reaction? They seem fine don’t they.. but their brain is quite different now than it was before. Anything that helps one quit, is a step forward and unless you have had a bad reaction to this particular drug don’t be an activist in search of a cause because you don’t know who’s lying.
Laurie
Brian, I will be an activist for whatever I chose. You’ve chosen to be an activist for pharma, who are known to lie also. Your onesided defense of everything pharma is obvious. At least I have the common sense to admit that some do fine on Chantix while others have problems. I work on the “what the heck is wrong with this patient” side of medicine…not the “take this and you will be wonderful” side. I listen to my patients without prejudice. When the ONLY information about a drug reaction or it’s efficacy is that patients report…nothing is a lie.
Nathan
Laurie and Lisa,
Here’s a few numbers to consider:
(Note: these are very rough numbers, I’m not a statistician and the numbers are off of web sites that may or may not be accurate — but will hopefully give us a “ballpark”)
Based on numbers that I’ve seen, somewhere in the range of 400,000 prescriptions for Chantix have been filled this year. Since the course of treatment is several weeks, let’s assume that number represents 200,000 people. Do you know what the homicide rate in the US is? Approximately 4 people per 100,000. Therefore, approximately 8 people using Chantix are likely to be murdered every year. If you consider a 1:1 ratio of victim to criminal, you can assume approximately 8 murderers are taking Chantix every year.
Here’s the eye-poping number: I found numbers suggesting that there are approximately 10 MILLION attempted suicides in the US every year. That means that 1 in 300 people in the US attempt suicide annually. That also means that a whooping 330 people taking Chantix are likely to attempt suicide this year.
I don’t know what the numbers of complaints about homicide and suicide are to the FDA. But you can be sure that the numbers have to be pretty high for them to be considered more than mere coincidence.
Brian, thanks for keeping up the fight. I just lost the energy to fight with Laurie and Lisa. They seem to forget that 160 thousand people die from lung cancer every year. Note that the lung cancer rate is 23 times higher among smokers than nonsmokers. It’s amazing to Laurie and Lisa are so upset about those few people who may (or may not) die every year from Chantix, while they are perfectly content to get rid of a tool that could take a significant chunk out of that 160 thousand bodies a year. I wonder what exactly they are defending… Maybe they work for tobacco company?
Lisa Van S
Good Morning Nathan,
Nice try at the #’s. You forget to consider Suicide/homicide due to antidepressants and SSRI’s, Antipsychotics and Accutane.
And before you say Antipsychotics dont cause violence and suicide, I suggest you read the Substance Induced Mood Disorders in Psychiatry’s Holy Bible the DSMIV.
Just imagine the lives that could have been saved, had the Patient been informed.
Lung Cancer also occurs in those who don’t smoke, and the Majority of Lung Cancer Victims are Women…Bet you didn’t know that.
Again,..It was nice try anyway.
Brian,
Many years ago the FDA stated that Cigarette Smoking wasnt harmful to your health…Hmm,.. they’ve changed their tune, haven’t they!!!!
Nathan
Lisa, are you suggesting that the majority of those 10 million attempted suicides and 1000 homicides every year are due to pharmaceuticals? As I said, my numbers are ballpark figures. Refute them by your own numbers please, not rhetoric.
I agree with you on one point: Lung cancer does occur in those that don’t smoke. Exactly 1 out 23 times. The other 22 out of 23 cancer victims are present or former smokers. I’m not sure exactly what point you are trying to make.
Brian
Your testimony at a congressional hearing lead to the black box warnings on antidepressants for teenagers. The effect of these warnings has been seen recently in an “up-tick” in the number of teen suicides presumably due to a failure to treat severe depression.
sid
Brian and Nathan –
You poor uniformed saps! You guys are new to this site aren’t you? You guys seem to be educated and have jobs - you can’t win this fight. Give up, many better have quit after giving it a good effort.
You see, when your judgement is clouded nothing can change your mind. That is 90% of the people on this site. It is antipharma/medicine. If the vocal minority were mainstream, then no one would go to docs and no one would take meds and no one would get vaccinated. In the small area in which I live (250,000 people) we lose 2-3 kids every year to whooping cough as many in this area were led to believe that vaccines caused autism. Nice objective look at the facts - I am glad they are throwing these parents into jail in some places.
There is no way Lisa is going to actually look at any numbers or listen to people actually trained as physicians. If you don’t consider smoking as slow suicide then you are a moron. Yes, if you could quit smoking without a pill that is better. Yes, if you could beat depression without pills that is great. Yes, if you could lower your BP without meds that is idea. Are meds worth the risk - ABSOLUTELY! Your idea that every needs to know the risk is valid - but the way you guys present it SCARES people. Scared people don’t seek treatment, they continue with present behavior. I run the risk of lung cancer d/t second hand smoke. I will take my chances against a drunk shooting me versus second hand smoke.
I can’t believe that Lisa tried to justify not using pills because “some people who get lung cancer don’t smoke”. Yes Lisa, and some that committ suicide aren’t on meds either. Does that hold water with you? And are you really trying to throw accutane under the bus now? Do you believe everything written on the internet?
So my advice : Lisa/Laurie - put away the settlement checks and go out and get a job. You guys need something to do with your time.
Brian/Nathan : Nice try fellas, it is a losing battle. Before you get too frustrated try the WSJ health blog. You can’t compete, you work, commute, have a life, etc.
See they think they are helping save lives. Now if everyone really wanted to help save people - not just blog away endlessly - you would immediately go to http://www.marrow.org.
Sign up to be a bone marrow donor. The pool needs to be increased and you WILL save a life, not think you are helping. No greater feeling than a 4 year old giving you a hug because you are the only reason they are still alive. So please, go out and actually help save a life.
Lisa Van S
Hi Sid’
You’ve been away, and ohh.. how I have missed you. Hope all is well, best wishes to you and your Family this Holiday Season.
Lisa Van S
Dear Brian,
Your’e checking up on me, how nice..Im flattered. Did you know that the White House Convened a Summit on School Safety on October 10, 2006 due to the rash of School Shootings. The White House sent me an invitation, and I was given an opportunity to speak about the violence and suicide associated with Pediatric Antidepressant use, What a great experience.I even rcved a thank you letter from the U.S., A.G.
Allow Me to Educate You:
According to Medco Health Solutions list of growth in Prescription drug claims for 2001-2006:
ADHD Drugs- Up nearly 74% for Girls and 37% for boy
ADHD Drugs carry A Black Box Warning for Violence/Suicide.
Antidepressants-Up more than 9% in Girls and less than 1% in Boys.
Antidepressants Carry a Black Box Warning for Violence/Suicide.
Antipsychotics-Up more than 117% in girls and almost 71% in Boys.
FDA Black Box Warning and Psychiatry’s Bible the DSMIV back up the claims of Antipsychtics causing violence/Suicide
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20070517/prescription-drug-use-up-in-teen-girls
APA:SSRI’S More Likely in Suicides than in other Young Deaths
http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbprint.cfm?tbid=5767&topicid=147
Paxil Health Care Provide Letter:
http://www.healthyskepticism.org/documents/documents/2004dearhcp.pdf
The Bottom Line– Antidepressants are not FDA approved for the treatment of Pediatric Depression (with one exception, Prozac)Antidepressants were found to have a causal role of Suicide and Violence in the Pediatric Population and this was established at the PDAC Hearing prior to FDA and Industry negotiations of the PI.
Let me know when you have something of substance….
Lisa Van S
Ed,
Pharmalot ate my Post to Brian, Would you Please fish it out.
Thanks
Laurie
Sid, I very much have a job. And luckily it’s working with a great group of doctors who talk to their patients, present risk and benefits, and fully research what they prescribe. Something that should be done by all doctors. No one has said that smoking isn’t a clear danger to someones health. But that doesn’t change the potential adverse reaction to a drug. Presenting ALL of the information is what this is about. Not minimizing risk for compliance.
Brian, Nathan and yourself present the pharma view, so I would expect nothing less that personal attacks when common sense is presented.
Bottom line is no one should take a drug without full risk and benefit information.No one is calling for a ban on these drugs, it’s simply a request for complete disclosure. If you have a problem with that, then there is a problem with your ideology.
I’m tired of trying to bring common sense to this discussion. I don’t benefit from looking for full disclosure, but patients do.
Keep on detailing Chantix gentleman.
Jane
If I recall correctly Chantix success rate is in the 43% range and that’s only with the help of SUPPORT. One would have to wonder if the success is not coming from the support and the drug really isn’t that effective at all. Given that along with the side effects of this drug I’m not convienced this drug should be on the market. I’m fairly certain if you take the drug out and only offered the support people would not be complaining of the side effects they have with this drug. I would rather take my chance with 20 or 30 more years smoking than ending up dead right after taking this drug because I placed myself in danger as a result of side effects from this drug.
Nathan
Jane,
The success rate in the phase III trial was 44%. The success rate for placebo was 17%. Both placebo and the Chantix group were offered the same counseling and support. In case you are wondering, that is a 160% improvement over placebo — that is DRAMATIC effect. That’s not marginal efficacy.
You said “I would rather take my chance with 20 or 30 more years smoking than ending up dead right after taking this drug because I placed myself in danger as a result of side effects from this drug”
I think the smoking may have fried a few of your brain cells. Smoking kills thousands upon thousands every year. So far, no one has proved that Chantix has killed a single person.
Lisa Van S
And the other 39% became violent/suicidal?— Pfizer creates magic, did you know that thay combined two “negative” Zoloft pediatric trials, combined them into one to create one positive study. The Media and Congress had a field day with that one.Pfizer couldnt even get the FDA to buy it.
Johna
just google “chantix” and “suicide” and see for yourself what this drug does to people…
sid
Brian I am urging you, run, don’t walk. You can’t win this fight! “You don’t call the retarded, retard; You call your friends retard when they are acting retarded”
Dude, you can’t argue with people like this! Luckily, people who want to extend their lives and take their chances are intrigued by this new pill. is it ideal, no. Is it better than continuing to smoke, yes.
Laurie, could you please provide your location and docs you “work with”. I would like to add them to my “never see, under any circumstance list — leave me for dead before they touch me list” But good for you, anyone signed up to actually save a life yet? http://www.marrow.org.
Fred
Just chiming in that I also developed pretty severe anxiety, stress and anger after taking Chantix for about a month. Finally got so stressed that I went back to the old stress relief — smoking. Quit taking Chantix and was fine within a couple of days…
Laurie
Aw, Sid. You wouldn’t like the docs that I work with. They actually talk to their patients and give complete information on what they prescribe.
sid
Fred, good for you. Way to avoid drugs!! I can’t believe that someone trying to quit smoking developed anxiety, stress, and anger….. I hope you reported this to the FDA as this is clearly a medication problem.
Don’t let anyone ever tell you to quit smoking ever again. Oh yeah, don’t worry about that lung cancer, anxiety is MUCH worse.
Laurie - if they talk to their patients and give complete information they are likely horrible. Good docs get BUSY - their patients have to trust them to tell them what they need to know and what to do. Simple as that. If you are no good, you have plenty of time to talk b/c you have no patients. Sorry, that’s what I have seen in 99% of practices.
And what do you do to “work” with these docs?
Lisa
Has anyone considered that vivid dreams, aggression, suicidal thinking and psychological imbalances are just the consequences of abruptly stopping a powerfully addictive drug? People are always looking for an easy way out!! Chantix can put you directly into wothdrawal from nicotine while you’re still smoking because it blocks the receptors. People don’t consider the seriousness of nicotine’s effects on the body and mind and want to blame it on Chantix. Concurrent prescription of an antianxiety med with Chantix would probably prevent some of this stuff.
Shanti
I can’t believe you guys!!! A bunch of grown adults going back and forth like children.
I started taking Chantix a few weeks ago now. This was after realizing that I had been smoking for longer than I wasn’t. Time to make a change.
If I could do it without a pill, I would. But that doesn’t seem to work for me. So Chantix to the rescue!!!
Are there side-effects with every medication? Depends on who you are and how your body works. Generally speaking, there are. But does the risk outway the benefit? Absolutely.
I feel slightly nauseated, have difficulty sleeping, feel tired most of the time, and am slightly irritable sice taking the drug. I also remember quitting cold-turkey and those “side-effects” were MUCH worse.
Chantix may not be for everyone, but for me, it’s worth a try. Maybe Chantix caused that crazy behavior in the musician who sadly was shot to death. It is also possible that the large amount of alcohol he consumed led to that behavior. Both are possible.
I agree with you all. The benefits outweigh the risks and people are entitled to full disclosure. None of you are necessarily wrong. Leave it at that.
Jane
Shanti, maybe I misunderstood, are you saying it was okay for the musician to die so you could quit smoking? What would you think of the drug if your behavior placed you in front of a loaded gun after taking this drug?
Shanti
Jane, what does the musician dying have to do with me quitting smoking? The point that I was trying to make was that none of us really know what caused the erratic behavior in him. It could have been any number of things or a combination. It could have been the medication he was taking. I’m not denying that possibility. It could have also been nicotine withdrawal, excess alcohol consumption, lack of sleep, previously existing psychological problems, or a combination of all these things. None of us really know.
As for this drug causing me to be suicidal, luckily that hasn’t happened. Quite the opposite in fact. I feel so accomplished and free from having not smoked. I have battled the addiction to smoking for over fifteen years. That is a long time when you consider that I am under 30 years old. As for those that experience those feelings or those that have committed suicide that is a very sad thing. My heart goes out to those people and their families. Should that possibility be looked into and made known…ABSOLUTELY.
I am not denying that drugs have side-effects. I have first-hand experience of having been administered drugs to save my life that nearly killed me. All that I am saying to you is that each person needs to make the informed decision that is right for them. If you decide that the risks don’t outweigh the benefits and you would like to continue smoking for the next 20-30 years then so be it.
To each their own.
As for me, I have a four year old little boy and I want to give him every advantage possible. Part of that advantage is having a healty mommy to raise him be there to love him. I’m sick of having to avoid explaining to him why mommy goes outside all the time. I’m sick of having to hide that I smoke because I’m ashamed of it. And I’m sick of being a slave to something that is killing me. Now I don’t have to. I cannot begin to explain the value of that.
Debra
well…after 30 yrs of smoking I decided to give Chantix a try and for me it’s working…I haven’t smoked in 7 days…I’m having no withdrawals or cravings…in fact Im HAPPY….what scares me is..when I run out of pills will I then get the cravings? I hope not….
Nancy
Laurie, do you even know what the “mesolimbic” system is? People who are not a health professionals should never try to read Rx inserts (or quots them). If you do your homework, you will see that it is not an area of the brain has an affect on behavior. So the “convenient” response of irritability from withdrawal is most likely and exclusively from actual nicotine withdrawal.
Melody
Nancy, you state: People who are not a health professionals should never try to read Rx inserts (or quots them).
Your arrogance is showing . . . is this how you (as the health professional you seem to imply you are) treat your patients . . . with arrogance and disdain.
If non-professionals ’should never try to read Rx inserts,’ then WHY are they mandated and included with products? Additionally, you seem to intimate that ONLY HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS have the intellect to comprehend complicated insert information. Do you think the rest of us, who lack initials after our names, turn off our brains when we graduate high school and cede all intellectual efforts to the likes of you?
Atlex
Melody,
Despite your protestations, labels are specifically designed for healthcare professionals and not for consumers. Many products also have consumer labeling that is designed to be understood by the lay person. It isn’t arrogant to suggest the lay person can’t understand product labels; it’s not intelligence, it’s expertise.
I consider myself a relatively bright person, but I am quite confident that I would be lost trying to read a document designed for an electrical engineer. I’m sure I’d misunderstand and misinterpret much of the content. I wouldn’t consider an electrical engineer arrogant for telling me that I don’t have the knowledge to properly read something meant for him/her.
Atlex
TOdd
Melody, can you tell me the only type of trial that could actually show causality? What is a p value, how about beta value. Is a study with an n=100 always too small to draw a conclusion? Can you explain type 1 errors, type 2 errors? Can you tell me how to power a study to enroll the correct number?
So that is just the very basic stats portion of this test, if you can answer all of those you can proceed to A&P, biochem, microbiology, and then if you get that far finally pharmacology.
No you don’t stop learning after high school as you state, but you don’t think docs spending 11+ years of 16 hour days learning count for more than your blog reading?
Agreeing with Atlex it is all a question of knowing where you have knowledge and where it is lacking. I am smart enough to know when I am out of my league.
Laurie
Nancy, I’ve been a registered nurse for 24 years, and I’m sure my anatomy and physiology education is considerably more than any drug rep. I know about the mesolimbic system. I also know that the current knowledge of that area of the brains function is very much limited. To make it sound like we have concrete knowledge of it’s function is naive.
To say that someone who isn’t a “health professional” shouldn’t read or couldn’t possibly understand a drug insert is insulting to the general public. And a true “health professional” would explain the potential downside of a drug to their patients.
It isn’t up to the “professional” to decide what to tell, or not tell a patient. ALL information should be presented. Medicine is based on a trusting relationship between patient and doctor. Not providing all safety information to increase compliance is somewhere medicine should never go.
TOdd
2 year RN program, 24 years ago. Is that accurate?
Or a quarter century ago was it even shorter duration of education.
Jen
Yes I am new here. I was doing research on Chantix when I stumbled upon this little war of words & just had to get in my 2 cents. I am finding nothing here but a reason for resentment. I am a smoker, have been dealing with depression U& anxiety (clinical depression, not “I can’t deal with my neighbor’s dog & need pills because of it” syndromes. Real, ugly, scary depression, folks. I was researching because I am concerned about the interactions between Chantix, Wellbutrin & Effexor (both extended release). I am concerned because my sister just got through with treatment via Chantix & is now smoke-free, however she had some serious emotional issues during treatment that were reminiscent of the onset of my depression - mood swings, aggression, feelings of hopelessness or losing control, tearfulness, etc. But those feelings went away after her treatment. I’m worried about trying the drug myself because although my depression is managed, I have been on SSRI’s that have indeed made my symptoms worse, to the point of suicidal ideation $ severe panic attacks. Yes, smoking cessation causes stress, anxiety, etc. but one who had suffered from mental illness knows the difference between just feeling sad or stressed out & having a clinical episode. The realities feel very different & are inexplicable to someone who has never experienced it themselves, regardless of the many decades of experience a clinician may have in the treatment of mental illness. You really just don’t get it unless you’ve been there. I have & it’s not a pretty place to be. What I’ve been reading from you folks here is a lot of posturing, patronization & condescending flippancy towards smokers, people who take meds, people who don’t take meds, & those who suffer very real symptoms regardless of their cause. You just don’t get it & have no business pretending you do. Perhaps you have a vague idea, but is sounds to me like very few of you are/have been smokers, mental illness patients, or dealt with neuropsychological side effects from medications & that is why you can take the holier-than-thou attitudes regarding the symptoms & black-&-white attitudes regarding treatment or lack thereof. People look down at smokers as pariahs but no one else is any better in the self-destructive habits they have & may not even be aware of. With regard to the statement about facing a drunk driver over secondhand smoke, you’re an idiot. I’ll do you one even better. I’ll sit in a closed garage with 10 smokers, you sit in a garage with a running car & we’ll see who comes out for breakfast in the morning. Your cars cause a hell of a lot more damage than my little cigarette but you never hear the stats on that. Why? Because heaven forbid people give up their precious cars because something bad comes from them. It’s easier to pick on the minority than look in the mirror. I can say this because I can’t drive so I’m not contributing to the 1/23 lung cancer sufferers who don’t smoke with car exhaust. So, back to my original question: Can any of you pharmacological geniuses give me any useful information on possible interactions between the 3 meds I mentioned, considering past experiences with SSRI’s? I don’t trust the drug companies or the media to give me the real scoop. I’d truly appreciate it.
Atlex
Jen,
While I sympathize with your plight, your final comment is inane. You say you don’t trust drug companies or the media, but you do trust a bunch of anonymous posters on an Internet blog. If you are being treated with an anti-depressant, why don’t you ask your doctor? I suspect he/she would probably not put you on Chantix given your clinical history.
Atlex
Lisa Van S
Atlex,
Great Advice..
Bob
Jen,
Whatever you do, don’t listen to the people around here. Ask your Dr.
Rich
Hi All, just to get back to the original point .. Its funny how these complaints turn up after it gets mentioned in the news ..
I have been taking chantix for 2 months now. I haven’t smoked for 3 weeks. No side affects that I can tell.
I am going to stop taking the pill shortly as I feel I don’t need it anymore.
Fred
Just getting back to sid. Yes, imaging that - getting stressed out when I stop smoking. I think you were trying to push my buttons, but you are correct that what I experienced cannot necessarily be blamed on the Chantix. I’ve tried to quit smoking many times. The Chantix worked well for about a month and then the stress/anxiety set in. This **could** mean that it just quit working at that point and I began to experience nicotine withdrawal a month after quitting. So, I think either the Chantix caused the anxiety OR it just didn’t really work after a month. Thanks for pointing out that possibility.
Sadie
Why would you quit smoking to prolong your life only to committ suicide a month after succeeding? This is the question I have. My uncle committed suicide the other day, shot himself right between the eyes. This was after seeing his doctor the day before with questions of anxiety and depression, conditions so new to him that he wasn’t sure what they were. Seems he’d been feeling this way for a couple of months and it was getting worse. The doctor suggested anti-depressants to help take the edge off, but my uncle would need to discontinue Chantix. My uncle refused because he didn’t want to start smoking again. Why would he care if he was going to kill himself the next morning? This drug may have helped a lot of people but I think there are going to be more reports of people (people w/out histories of depression or psychosis)that have attempted and/or succeeded at suicide. There are other drugs out there to help someone quit, I suggest those, and I know my Aunt does. If your taking Chantix, or know someone who is, keep your eyes and ears open.
Mary
I also believe what my husband is going through is related to the Chantix he took. My husband never had a bad word for anyone-he always had a smile on his face-the fun loving guy who loved life and his family. We have three kids that up until two months ago he had an awesome relationship with.
He is a stranger to us now. He doesn’t talk or laugh-no more kidding around just an empty shell of who I have been with for the past 18 years. It is unreal to me how he has changed-how uncaring he has become. I blame this drug 100%because before he took it he was a great and loving husband and father. Now he is cold and uncaring. The only thing that was different was the Chantix.
Brian
Your husband was a smoker, that’s why he never had a bad word for anyone-he always had a smile on his face-and fun loving who loved life and his family as long as he was on nicotine. Nicotine is a drug that he can’t live without
I sincerely suggest he see a physician about depression. It is possible he has been self medicating for depression with nicotine. Chantix takes the place of nicotine and blocks the effect of smoking. It does no-more or less but it’s not an antidepressant.
janice
the only thing i have to say is chantix is wonderful and i couldn;t have quit with out it. 3 months and counting!!!
Lisa Van S
Janice,
That’s Great,.. Best of Luck to you.
Franklin
You will never see a report “PERSON X committed suicide/murdered someone because he quit smoking” because quitting is not a cause. I would guess a lot of people have quit smoking and committed suicide shortly afterwards without taking Chantix.
There are 301,000,000 PEOPLE in the US and last year roughly 29,000 of them committed suicide which is .009%. 50 people have committed suicide on Chantix so if over 500,000 people have used Chantix there is no difference from the general population. You would also have to run your regressions with “smoker” and “quitting smoking” as variables if you wanted to get a real picture.
The question definitely requires more research but I haven’t heard anything compelling yet. I’m on my second day of quitting while using Chantix and I’m willing to risk it.
Lora
I wonder if this will make people start studying why people begin smoking in the first place. There are studies already that show that people dealing with depression have a much more difficult time quitting smoking. Psychologists and psychiatrists have been trying to fight for patients’ rights to continue smoking while receiving treatment for a long time. Basically, they know that someone who is dealing with these sort of issues already might crack if they can’t smoke to help them cope. I think it might make more sense to start looking at what smoking does for people that might be mentally sick in the first place and treat that first, then help them quit smoking once they are already stable. Yes, quitting smoking IS tough and non-smokers should be just a little more patient with those who struggle with this addiction.
Lora
Jen: I also wanted to say that your doctor very well might put you on Chantix. I have been taking it and I have had a long history of depression and anxiety but I have been treated with Paxil for several years and I am relatively stable as long as I am on my medication. Thus far the only time I feel sad or depressed is if I don’t take the prescriptions like I am supposed to. As with all medicines though, I think it is really important to pay attention to the symptoms and report them immediately if you start to feel problems. Awareness is not a bad thing.
paxilprogress » Blog Archive » Chantix To Get Suicide Warnings In… Australia
[...] thoughts and aggressive and erratic behavior in patients who have taken Chantix. More than 5,000 adverse events have been reported to the [...]
todd
Having been prescribed this drug in October of 2007, 5 days into treatment, I checked myself into the hospital. Why?
I was having repeated panic attacks, vivid and lurid thoughts of suicide and was extremely “aggro”
The ER doc thought I was a steroid user, I was so crazed.
I would NEVER suggest ANYONE take this medication, EVER.
While it is not an anti-depressant, it is a drug that interacts with the brain in ways doctors do not fully understand. Remember, the brain is the ONLY organ in the body in which doctors only understand ~30% of it’s function.
Brian
Todd,
You are a nicotine addict right? What has that done to your brain? Any ideas?.. I’ll bet you started smoking due to an anxiety disorder am I right? Now what are you going to do??
todd
no - you are not correct.
i quit cold turkey 2 days after my visit to the ER - 4 months ago.
pg
http://www.drugs.com/news/fda-medwatch-chantix-varenicline-associated-reports-changes-behavior-agitation-depressed-mood-7696.html
“While some patients mayhave experienced these types of symptoms and events as a result of nicotine withdrawal,
some patients taking Chantix who experienced serious neuropsychiatric symptoms and events
had not yet discontinued smoking.
In most cases, neuropsychiatric symptoms developed during Chantix treatment, but in others, symptoms developed following withdrawal of Chantix therapy”
pg
So, though some patients MIGHT have experienced these types of symptoms because of nicotine withdrawal:
“These symptoms include changes in behavior, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal ideation, and attempted and completed suicide” (same link as previous post)
Some people who were NOT in nicotine withdrawal because they hadn’t stopped smoking yet but WERE taking Chantix, experienced suicidal ideation and attempted and completed suicide.
Seems fairly clear - they take Chantix, they haven’t stopped smoking so its not due to nicotine withdrawal, but they become suicidal.
Sounds like adverse drug effects to me.
pg
Whats more
http://whyquit.com/pr/082506.html
“Pfizer’s studies excluded those with mental health issues”
(They also excluded people with cardiac disorders and numerous other physical problems. So expect to see a rise in heart attacks etc in people who start Chantix, which of course will be thought to result from their underlying health problem and nobody but Pfizer will be any the wiser)
Deb
My husband smoked for 25+ years. He went to the doctor and received a prescription for Chantix. He successfully quit smoking but he suffered from very bizarre dreams, his personality changed, he seemed to be a completely different person. Even other friends and family noticed his odd behavior after taking the Chantix. Long story short…he committed suicide on 12/31/07. Was it related to the Chantix…I may never really know. Just thought I would throw this tidbit of life experience out to you all.
jane
Here’s what makes sense to me. I can quickly commit suicide while being exposed to chantx at some time in the near future or I can slowly commit suicide over what’s left of my life at 46 (smoking 25 yrs). Hmmm do I want to chance in the near future or try to beat the odds, and maybe just maybe I can quit yet again without chantix and be successful. hmmm that’s what logic I see the so called professionals on this board bickering about.
Jen (way up above) you are 100 percent right in everything you said. but don;t trust the people on this board or Chantix “Get Quit” site (they edit and cut posts as they see fit). Talk to your doctors make sure they are all on the same page bring in these posts and others to see what your concerns are. Then you and your doctors can be better informed. The doctors are as informed as these people here, as they listen to what the biased pfizer (or any) pharm reps have to say. Kickbacks and free samples, season tickets and such, go do the research on that if you all wonder what i am talking about. Our doctors are not as informed as they should be, that’s why there are dead folks. For those buying chantix on line without a REAL doctors visit. THAT IS ASKING FOR DEATH. Go find a real doctor for an opinion.
Good luck all who are trying to quit.
Grow a brain for the rest of you who have nothing better to do than waste space on the net with your inane biased arguements.
Unless you are GOD shut the hell up on your opinionated biased bickering for you know not what you are talking about unless you have been there personally and I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy if I had one.
You think you are helping here? Your not, you are making an already tough decision toughter with you useless rhetoric.
pg
Deb
I’m so sorry for your loss. Thank you for having the courage to warn others by sharing your experience.
Nathan
Jane,
No one is suggesting that people get on Chantix (or any other drug) without talking to doctors. Moreover, you are criticizing the conversation of risk/benefit that we are having. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS CHAT SITE! You have no right to criticize our conversations. About half of the posters on this site are professionals that are involved in the development of pharmaceuticals. We aren’t just a bunch of hacks. If you’d rather not read our opinions, then go away. Incidentally, your comments about “beating the odds” illustrates that you have absolutely no comprehension of statistics and probability. I can guarantee with your level of understanding you will never “beat the odds”, unless its by dumb luck.
pg
Deb, I’m also very sorry about the insensitive remarks in the first paragraph of the comment that came immediately after yours. Really sorry. I can’t even imagine how that would have hurt you, and I just wish I had the power to delete that person’s comment, or at least the first paragraph in it.
Nathan, we clearly don’t agree on things generally but, for the first time I think, I agree with your last comment although maybe I would have written in a slightly different way. So thats a first :-)
Ed Silverman
Hi Folks,
I’d like to gently remind everyone to try to stick to the subject and not discuss one’s explicit personal views of others who show up to chat.
No, I’m not censoring anyone. And I do appreciate your passion about the subject.
But I would prefer if we all try to remember this is supposed to be the equivalent of a discussion - however intense - that takes place in a comfortable living room. In this case, my living room.
Thanks
ed
pg
OK Ed. I’m not sure I know what you mean, but I guess I must have said something wrong for you to have followed me up with a comment.
Sorry.
pg
I really don’t understand. How is Deb’s personal experience and my response ‘off topic’? Or off subject? Your post is about “Chamtix and Suicidal Behaviour, the numbers please”
Deb had the courage despite her obvous grief to give you ONE personal experience of Suicidal Behaviour on Chantix. HOW is that OFF TOPIC?
Is sympathising with someone who has experienced that kind of deep, black, utter grief OFF TOPIC? If so, I won’t bother to post here anymore.
Ed Silverman
Hi PG,
To be candid, my comment wasn’t directed at you. I’m just noticing a tone creeping into some other comments that, I feel, is getting unnecessarily harsh toward others.
I greatly respect and appreciate the opinions expressed here - and understand the emotions that the topic engenders - I’d just prefer if a few folks took the equivalent of a deep breath. It’s in the name of civility.
I apologize for making you - or anyone - feel unwelcome. That wasn’t my intent. I hope this helps.
Regards
ed
pg
Ed, thanks for taking the time to explain and, once again, I’m sorry for misunderstanding - it seemed that way at the time because you posted so quickly after my comment.
Tessa
Hi,
I really do appreciate the different views all of you have. I have an unopened bottle of Chantix in my purse..I’m wondering if I should even try it. My close friend told me of vivid dreams she was having and she couldn’t tell reality from her dreams. She said that she would have conversations with her clients and they would look at her in disbelief. The conversations she was talking to them about never happened. Any input on the dream issue?
Jim
I have read several of the posts on this site and there is one thing I agree with: the risk of suicide is overstated. This warning comes with most, if not all anti-depressants. I had originally posted here that I suffered from physiological symptoms which I attribute to my use of Chantix and that to me is the real problem. The drug was not adequately tested it should never have been given fast track approval. Lilly has a new drug for shizophrenia and because of the danger of brain damage, full approval is not expected until at least 2011. Chantix is similar in that it crosses the blood/brain barrier and the possibility exists for permanent brain damage but because of the “Public Hazard” caused by smoking it was given fast track approval. This mindset puts smokers at the back of bus. The witchhunt mentality and the self-righteous blatherings of some of the individuals on this site makes my point completely. The IDIOTS who say that all the problems that people claim are coming from Chantix are actually coming from nicotine withdrawal just shows their ignorance. To those of you who tried to make intelligent arguments against their ignorant statements, all I can say is do not waste your time. Their sentiments are clear, let’s eliminate smokers at all costs. These are individuals who would have been right at home in 1930’s Germany.
I have read comments here where the 44% statistic is cited as against 17% on a placebo: this is incorrect in a 52 wek study the actual numbers were 44% for Chantix users as opposed to 37% for those on a placebo. Why do you think Pfizer dropped this claim from their ads. I have also read that Chantix targets only the Nicotinac receptors, again this is incorrect, Chantix also binds moderately to the 5HT3 (pleasure) receptor. I am sure through my own experience that Chantix permanently affects both serotonin and dopamine production.
Finally, contrary to the moronic experts on this cite, brain chemistry is not understood nor is much of the human body. Just look at Zetia, it reduces cholesterol but does not reduce the risk of heart attack. We have a long way to go before we understand the human body and as far the brain goes we are probably not much further along then blood letting and leaches.
Brenda in Texas
I am disgusted by the “tone” some people take on message boards. You would likely never tell someone to their FACE the kind of hateful crap you say on a blog or message board. I guess hiding behind a keyboard makes some people have ‘nads?
I took Chantix for three months. Everyone ASSUMED, as did I, that my sudden aggression and “throw everything away” hateful attitude was just the result of 18 months of constant stress at work. And perhaps that was a factor, but I became someone COMPLETELY different, and then things got even worse when I stopped taking it. I lost blocks of time that I couldn’t remember. I severed ties to people I really loved and cared about, because suddenly I couldn’t stand them. I was determined at one point to quit my job and not return, living off my retirement savings, because I felt so horrible that I just knew going back to that job would be the death of me.
I had two major “breakdowns,” the last of which caused me to sign myself into a hospital. The doctors quickly labelled me bipolar because I had gone “manic” for two days, suddenly. I had NO history of bipolar problems whatsoever.
I am now Chantix-free, and, seeing a psychiatrist who says he does not doubt, for a moment, that Chantix is responsible for my breakdown. He refuses to prescribe it to anyone because it seems dangerous to him. He has taken me off most of the “cures” that the other quacks put me on, and now I’m almost back to normal… the “me” I was before I took Chantix.
Tomorrow marks 6 months without a cigarette. At least I managed to quit. I would be really angry if I had been through all this and still smoked.
Chantix seems to work for lots of people. And I’m glad for them that they have not experienced psychotic breakdowns, heart attacks, joint pain, etc. But for some of us, the drug is very destructive. And you can blame nicotine withdrawal all you like, but I have been through it before, and this experience was so completely different from anything I ever experienced going through nicotine withdrawal before.
My father has one theory… that the cigarettes being manufactured today contain more addictive chemicals than the ones he smoked many years ago. I guess that’s one possibility, but there is too much “smoke” here (no pun intended) surrounding Chantix for me to believe that it isn’t a very dangerous medication for some people. I’m living (thank goodness) proof.
Doug
My wife and I both quit smoking on Chantix. It worked wonderful. Symptoms of depression started in my wife just after finishing the prescription. Last October, 6 months after completing the prescription, my wife was hospitalized for almost a week for attempted suicide. Not like her character at all. We’re all still healing from something even my wife is amazed happened to her.
Donna
I took Chantix for three months. During that period I did quit smoking. I also kicked my 19 year old son out of the house causing him to live in his car for a month during a severe cold snap, quit my managerial job after an angry outburst, and although I obviously did not committ suicide I made a plan. Luckily, I went for help before following through with the plan. I attributed the emotional changes to PMS. In fact, the mental health care provider I spoke with said it was the worst case of PMDD (Pre-Menstral Dysphoric Disorder) she had ever seen. We did not attibute these symptoms to Chantix at the time - now I am curious. I am no longer on Chantix and unfortunately am smoking again. I had been considering going back on Chantix until I stumbled across this site. I believe this knowledge has possibly saved my life.
Mark
My father and my family have become recent victims of the rare but severe adverse reactions linked to Champix in which my father had accidentally taken his own life during what appeared to be a major “psychotic event”. He had been drinking in combination with taking Champix which appears to have resulted in hanging himself in the garden shed. I had spoken to him only hours before and he was his usual happy self, just settling in for the night to watch some TV and have a few drinks. He was a contented happy man with everything going for him and everything to live for. He was happily married and had recently become a grandfather and was about to become one for the second time. With no financial worries and his working life nearing an end he was positively looking forward to his twilight years of watching his grand kids grow up and share his retirement with my mother, family and his wide circle of friends.
He had began taking Champix in early February and had reported to the family that he had suffered from some of the more common side-effects including vomiting, headaches and disturbed sleeping but did not elaborate on why he thought his sleep had been effected. On the 23rd of March 2008 his body was discovered by my brother at the family home. There was no note and there appears to have been no premeditation to the events. The authorities so far are treating his death as a “terrible accident” in which they believe there was no intent to end his life. In my opinion with the evidence that has been explained to me, he appears to have behaved completely out of character including damaging our home in a way that would be totally alien to my father given the pride he had in his home.
In my mind there is no doubt that these pills, which are designed to mimic the “high” from smoking by releasing dopamine which effects behaviour, had a huge part to play in my father’s premature death.