Up In Smoke? Pfizer’s Chantix & Suicidal Thoughts
137 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // November 20th, 2007 // 3:32 pm
The FDA has received reports from the drugmaker of suicidal thoughts and aggressive and erratic behavior in patients who have taken Chantix, a smoking cessation product. And so the agency is reviewing the cases, along with a number of reports from the media and internet sites. The agency writes on its web site today that “a preliminary assessment reveals that many of the cases reflect new-onset of depressed mood, suicidal ideation and changes in emotion and behavior within days to weeks of taking Chantix.”
“The role of Chantix in these cases is not clear because smoking cessation, with or without treatment, is associated with nicotine withdrawal symptoms and has also been associated with the exacerbation of underlying psychiatric illness,” the FDA states. “However, not all patients described in these cases had pre-existing psychiatric illness and not all had discontinued smoking.”
UPDATE: A Pfizer spokesman e-mailed us to say that Chanitx labeling has been updated to reflect the various reports, but emphasized that “there is no scientific evidence establishing a causal relationship between Chantix and these reported events…In clinical trials involving more than 5,000 patients, adverse events related to changes in behavior or psychiatric symptoms, including suicidal ideation, were rare and occurred at a rate comparable to placebo-treated patients. There were no suicides in patients taking Chantix in our clinical trials.” [ANOTHER UPDATE: Actually, a Phase III trial did yield one suicide in a patient with a history of depression, but it was 'not considered related' to Chantix. Also, the US label notes that side effects reported by patients include suicidal ideation, but not suicide. By contrast, the Canadian label doesn't say reported by patients, but does mention suicide.]
A recent example, however, that drew national attention to Chantix was the case of Carter Albrecht. While in a drunken rage, the Texas musician banged on the door of a homeowner, who feared an intruder, and shot and killed the young man. Although Albrecht was later found to have tested for a high level of alcohol, he’d also begun taking Chantix, the smoking-cessation drug, a week earlier and complained of vivid dreams. Hallucinations are noted as only a rare psychiatric disorder, but “Chantix dreams†were cited by Albrecht’s family and girlfriend as possibly contributing to his outburst.
The FDA cited this case in its statement today, and adds that Pfizer has been asked for info on additional cases that may be similar. The agency is “currently evaluating the material Pfizer submitted in response” as well reports of drowsiness in people taking Chantix who had difficulty driving or operating machinery.
You may recall that Chantix’s role in Albrecht’s death may never be known. The Dallas medical examiner, Jeff Barnard, wrote in his report that he sought to test the body for the drug, but was unable to do so. He told us recently that his lab doesn’t have the validated tests needed to determine whether the drug was in Albrecht’s body at the time of death. He was also unable to find a lab to conduct the needed test and the sample sent by Pfizer expired after only a few days.
Douglas Vanderburg, Pfizer’s Chantix medical director, responded by telling us that the sample sent Barnard was good for several weeks. But by not conducting a test itself, Pfizer avoided accusations of covering up results. However, should a similar episode occur, it may be difficult to verify whether Chantix played a role in someone’s death, unless a lab is equipped to run tests.
UPDATE: We’d like to add that we also spoke with Laurence Kobilinksy, who heads the department of forensic sciences at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. Although not familiar with the specifics of the Albrecht case, he says that if the medical examiner doesn’t have the equipment to test for Chantix, “they can send it to an accredited lab that could. Sometimes, you need a very special assay and not every medical examiner can handle the different samples they get. But when there’s a situation and a question about toxicity, you just don’t drop it.”
Pharma Giles
You will now receive a string of comments saying what a great compound Chantix is, how “I never suffered any side-effects, and neither did my husband/wife/budgie, and now I’ve been smoke-free for weeks”. Anyone who writes ANYTHING about Chantix gets those. I wonder why…?
Brian
It is too bad the FDA now has to respond to any unsubstantiated reports of adverse events. Remember Mr Albrecht did not commit suicide. This story would have had no legs 5 -10 years ago. I would wait and see if any stronger associations with side effects appear from doctors observations of their patients. Remember also quitting cold turkey causes all the same side effects but people usually just go back to smoking and they feel better. Chantix blocks the effect of smoking. You mention that there is no way to know if Albrecht had chantix in his blood stream. I’ll help you with the chemistry here. A simple HPLC trace will be enough to determine whether chantix was in his blood stream. No magic here, the medical examiner does not need any protocol from Pfizer to determine the level of chantix. The M.E. must have his reasons not to do this. Secondly, assume it was in his system..so what? His blood alcohol level was 4 times the legal limit and that itself is more likely the cause of his behavior. The testimony of his girlfriend is highly prejudicial. Remember chantix sits on the same receptor as nicotine and gives a partial response.. Again no magic here but I do think the reduced levels of nicotine he experienced are causing withdrawal. Nicotine withdrawal can be severe and that is why many people have trouble quitting. People who smoke and drink to have a good time may be highly addicted to nicotine. Maybe they will need more help and encouragement. Please try to be fair in your widely read column.
Atlex
Ed, one note…the FDA cited reports of suicide ideation, not suicide. Your headline suggests otherwise. That’s a big difference.
Ed Silverman
Hi Atlex,
Duly noted, and adjusted.
ed at Pharmalot
nancy
I take this drug so as not to crave alcohol. It works and the only side affect I have is a sick stomach. I know that it is not FDA approved for this purpose but where I live I am able to but Chantix without a Rx. Until I am able to afford rehab.I am grateful to have access to it.
please take note of these people
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/mass_tort_litigation/2006/11/wsj_on_pfizers_.html
The guy writing at helpmestop.blogspot.com seems to have experienced something similar to what likely happened to Carter, too.
So we’re getting the run around about this testing business? Pfizer says Dallas can do it. Dallas says it can’t and can’t find a lab that will. A lab in NY *has* offered to do it? And Derek Lowe from the previous entry says it can be done with a freezer or “LC/MS”? Or an “HPLC” according to Brian? So which is it? What is going on behind the scenes here?
Lisa Van S
Nancy,
Chantix for Alcohol Addiction thats “INSANE”. Seek out a 12 Step Program, Its safer…..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lisa Van S
Atlex,
Suicidal Ideation, attempts, and completed Suicides have been reported w/Zyban and Wellbutrin. Did anyone believe that Chantix would be any different,..knowing full well that Chantix has an SSRI component…
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Unabstantiated,”GET A LIFE”… Ed stay away from Industry Propaganda,…The Public’s Life Depends upon it!!!!….
Nathan
Lisa,
To my knowledge Chantex (Varenicline tartrate) does not “have an SSRI component” as you say. It’s an alpha-4-beta-2 nicotinic receptor partial agonist. Where do you get your information from?
Bob
Lisa-You bring nothing to this board other than being a whining psycho. Please stop hijacking every thread. You have no right to criticize someone else’s alcohol dependence. Grow up.
-Brian-Absolutely correct.
-Nancy-How long have you been alcohol free? Good job!!
Ed Silverman
Hi Folks,
Just for the record, and really in response to Brian’s comment, I’d like to note that I mentioned the Albrecht case because the FDA referred to it, even though not by name. Even if the agency hadn’t been so obvious, it was clearly an example of what was being described.
Also, I think I was clear in noting that Albrecht was in the aggressive behavior category, not a suicide (as far as we know) and had been drinking; I used the term ‘drunken rage.’ The FDA noted that all those behaviors, by the way, are being examined.
And while his girlfriend may be biased - is that surprising? - there are others involved in the episode who also have vested interests of their own - the medical examiner, the parents, the drugmaker and I’m sure I’m forgetting someone. That’s just the way it is.
And I followed up with, and about, the medical examiner and his role because there were unanswered questions, which I thought were worth noting. I don’t presume to have all the answers, but as always, as I learn more, I write more.
Ultimately, I don’t believe I made any judgement about the Albrecht case or inferred that it was typical or atypical. It was, however, out there for weeks and drew national attention and, again I mentioned it because the FDA clearly referred to it as one obvious case being examined.
Whether this sort of thing would have generated this kind of interest several years ago is hard for me to say. It may very well have, given the attention paid to other meds that were withdrawn over side effects. Nonetheless, it’s of interest today and that’s why I took note. And while some may disagree, I do believe I was fair in my treatment.
ed at Pharmalot
Melody
Bob–
Who appointed you the site-police? Did I miss an “election” somewhere? If you don’t like Lisa’s message–ignore it. She has as much right to voice her opinion as you do. If Ed finds censorship necessary–I would assume that becomes HIS (or the Star-Ledger’s) call–not yours.
Donna
Freedom of speech is just one thing we can all be thankful for…..Wishing each and every one of you “A Wonderful Thanksgiving”!
Dion
I just finshed a 3 month regimine of Chantix with no side effects other than upset stomach for about 15 minutes after i took it. I am a fairly heavy drinker (10 - 12/wk) and kept drinking while i took it. I have never had a history of depression and never diagnosed with any other psychiatric illness.
I also vehemently dislike pharmaceuticals and the companies that peddle their dope. Having said all that — Chantix worked very well for me and helped me quit smoking. Call me a wimp, but I would not have quit without it. I tried Welbutrin and hated the side effects — which included insomnia and hallucinagenic dreaming. Welbutrin warns you not to drink alchohol while on the drug. I quit Welbutrin after 4 days which was enough to help me quit smoking for 2 months, then I started up again. That’s when I went to my doctor and he recommended Chantix.
Not only does Chantix stop the craving for nicotine, when you try to smoke a cigarette, it tastes horrible and you cannot take more than 2 puffs before you literally throw it down. Blocking nicotine receptors is one thing — a nicotine antagonist is something else. I have read much of their literature and they do not discuss the antagonistic effect of the drug.
In the end, the benefits of not smoking have outweighed the risks I experienced with the drug.
Melody
Dion–
You state: “Chantix worked very well for me and helped me quit smoking. Call me a wimp, but I would not have quit without it.”
I wouldn’t call you a wimp . . . but I would point out that the operative words in your statement are “FOR ME.” I’m glad you succeeded; I have two friends who tried Chantix . . . and both are still smoking. It’s good for doctors to have a variety of tools to assist patients . . . but for pharmaceuticals to PUSH their concoctions on the public (through DTC advertisements) is, IN MY OPINION, wrongheaded. They are not–as their reps would have you believe–trying to better mankind–they are exploiting a vulnerable population FOR PROFIT ONLY. They are not satisfied with profiting from a niche market–and allowing doctors to determine what tools to offer patients–they are demanding that almost every drug be a blockbuster! I think Bob is a good representative of their ilk; if you disagree with him–you should lose your right to freedom of speech–there! that will solve the pharma problem!
atlex
Melody,
Nice of you to mention freedom of speech. I guess its OK for you to have freedom of speech, but not OK for pharma companies. DTC is speech–highly regulated speech. In fact, pharma companies are compelled to tell you not only the benefits of a product, but also almost every possible side effect that can happen when you take a medication.
Take a look at the Chantix commercials. There is no promise of a panacea. They clearly state that Chantix is part of a journey toward quitting. For many smokers, it may take two or three attempts even with an effective product such as Chantix. Importantly, the ads for Chantix are a public service since smoking is among our most serious public health issues.
Atlex
atlex
Ed,
I’m not clear as to the drug test controversy. Is there a dispute about whether he took Chantix? I think everyone seems to acknowledge that he likely did. Assuming he did, a blood testing confirming that doesn’t prove one way or the other that Chantix had anything to do with the subsequent actions.
Atlex
Ed Silverman
Hi Atlex,
The issue with the testing had to do with whether the Dallas medical examiner was able and/or willing to do what was needed to determine whether Chantix was in the body.
There seems to be no dispute that Albrecht had taken Chantix, at least in the days prior to the incident. Now, had Chantix turned up in an autopsy, there likely would have been a debate about whether the drug played a role in the episode. But it never got that far. Does this help?
Regards
ed at Pharmalot
Steph
Ok…so alot has been said about the depression and rage side effects, but had anyone else had the extreme chest pain and shortness of breath that I’m experiencing? I’m in the process of weaning off Chantix to see if this is the cause, because otherwise I feel like I’m heading into heart problems that can’t be explained by cardiologists. Anyone??
Linda
Steph, You probably won’t read this because you posted so long ago, but, for any others out there…I too had chest pain and shortness of breath. I found out too late that people with past heart issues should not take it. The ONLY way I found out is by taking it. On the day that you double the dose, my heart started to pound and race. I have previously had surgery to correct supraventricular tachycardia. My heart has been perfect until now. Even 3 weeks after stopping chantix, at least 3-4 times a day my heart will go to about 140 bpm. Now, I have to go back to my cardiologist. My Dr should not have put me on chantix but I guess it’s too late to do anything about it now.
Oh, and I didnt quit smoking because the Dr took me off of it too soon. Now I’m going to try the patches again. Just my 2 cents.
gch
I started Chantix in October. After 5 weeks I became depressed and suicidal. I tried to end my life but was saved by a co-worker.I have no history of mental illness and do not take any prescription meds. I have a 35 year smoking history and have quit twice: once with the gum and once with the patch without any depression or suicide attempts. Chantix has been detrimental to my life and career. Be very careful with this drug.
sandra
Hi ya all. I have been on Chantix for several weeks, not quite 2 months yet. After I begun I started having bad stomach upset on a full stomach. The kind of upset where you feel like lying down and resting. It last for about 15-20 mins. Anyone have any idea how to prevent this besides yogurt? Coca Cola helps me somewhat. No depression or suicidal thoughts, but definitely stomach upset, constipation, indigestion and lots of GAS.
As far as smoking goes, I really don’t crave cigs. Just the thought that I should be smoking pops up and I smoke to prevent an anxiety attack. They give me no satisfaction and taste bad. I am down to 2 to 5 cigarettes a day and recently omitted the first morning cigarette - which I never thought I could go with out.
The main problem is the stomach upset which is very uncomfortable - you almost feel like throwing up. At first it didn’t bother me but as time went on while taking Chantix it got bad.
sandra
PS. I went back down to one pill a day and the affects seem the same. You can make your prescription last longer by doing this with same benefits - at least for me anyway.
judy
I am not a breakfast eater but, eating sure helps with the stomach thing. I have not gotten chest pains but shortness of breath has worsened after about a month on the pills twice a day. Has anyone else had this? I would like to hear if you have and if it went away. It is working but, afraid I will need to back off to 1 a day.
Thanks
Angel
I took Chantix for 45 days. It was a great tool to help me quit smoking. But on Christmas Eve I started to get an overwhelming urge to kill myself. I have never delt with suicidal thoughts. It took me over. Thank God…A week before this happened a guy I know said”be careful on that Chantix it causes people to commit suicide and kill people”I laughed it off because a lot of people try to rain on your parade when your doing so good. But that little bit of knowledge helped me realize the suicidal thoughts were from the Chantix. After a few days I completely stopped taking the medicine. I was only ever able to take half the prescribed dose to begin with due to nausea. I am still smoke free and now Chantix free. I felt like I should tell my story incase someone else ends up in my boat. Around the last five days of taking Chantix I also started getting very inpatient and angry.
Michelle
My husband is on his second month of Chantix. He has become very mean and aggressive. He is an extremely heavy drinker (let’s say 10 - 12 a day) At this point I am kind of afraid for myself.
a different lisa
I am currently taking an ethics class and decided to speak about Chantix and the media attention currently surrounding it. I hope nobody minds if i use posted information. please let me know if you have any specific points that could be helpful, positive or negative.
Thankyou, LisaB ( not the one who previously posted inaccurate information.. i work in pharmacy, and chantix is definately not an SSRI.. )
good luck to those trying to quit!
Lisa Van S
a different lisa
I never said Chantix was an SSRI. I said it has antidepressant properties..
Huh?
Lisa, you undermine your efforts when you revise history so transparently. The following is from a post in this very thread!
November 20th, 2007 at 10:39 pm Lisa Van S
Atlex,
Suicidal Ideation, attempts, and completed Suicides have been reported w/Zyban and Wellbutrin. Did anyone believe that Chantix would be any different,..knowing full well that Chantix has an SSRI component…
Lisa Van S
HUH,
Component vs. properties,.. all the same to me.
Hmmm,.. maybe the Industry should be as transparent, as you seem to think I am.
Huh?
Lisa,
Your shotgun approach to drugs does your efforts little good. Drugs do good and drugs can do harm, both in very specific ways. By carelessly throwing terms around you undermine what credibility you might have. Perhaps I am tilting at a windmill here, trying to point this out to you.
Chantix may well have psychiatric side effects similar to the SSRIs you’re campaigning against. That doesn’t make them the same any more than it would if they both caused dry mouth or nausea.
To be a truly effective advocate, beyond simply stating your experiences, you need to at least *seem* to have some subject matter expertise. The industry may well deserve bashing, but you’re weakening your attack by being sloppy.
Lisa Van S
Huh,
“Beyond simply stating your experiences, you need to at least *seem* to have some subject matter expertise”
GSK created the Person I am Today,..They taught me well.
Comparing “nausia” to “Suicide” now thats sloppy…
lisa d
sorry to change your subject but when do you start to feel
chantix go into effect? upset stomach, chest pain and some shortness of breath, but thats it. i have been on the med since 1/1/08.
lisa d
Lisa D.
Sorry to get off the beaten track but, I have been taking chantix for nine days. When do you start to feel the effect of the med? Only things I have felt so far are: stomach upset,heaviness in the chest and shortness of breath. Still feel like I want to smoke like a chimminey so I did not give up the smokes. If anyone out there feels the same, drop a line. Also if anyone out there could give me an answer it would be great.
Brian
Chantix has no antidepressant properties beyond what nicotine has. It does not bind or interact with the same receptors that wellbutrin and zyban interact with. It has no SSRI properties. Chantix binds to the same receptor that nicotine binds to and NOTHING ELSE. All side effects are similar to quitting smoking w/o treatment. Good luck all you quitters, it won’t be easy..Don’t give up. Smoking has many side effects even if nicotine has only one.. addiction
Lisa Van S
Brian
Are you a Pfizer Scientist, and if you are a Scientist, please share the data you have to back up your claim.
The Industry takes great pride in protecting their “so called” trade secrets.
Brian
All data and properties of Chantix (varenicline) have been published in peer reviewed journals.
Lisa Van S
lisa d,
The best advice anyone can give you, is to contact your Physician, seeking medical help here is not a good idea.
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Now thats funny…
Brian
You recommend talking to doctors. Where do you think doctors get their information?? Are they just born smart
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Are you for real..
Brian
Never a serious contribution from you..lead follow or get out of the way
Lisa Van S
Brian,
It fills my heart with joy to know that Im getting on your last nerve.
Brian
You have the right to treatment. Take advantage of it but don’t interfer with its creation. Your mind needs to heal. There are some good people trying to help in a serious way. The grandstanders form a larger and larger share of the population but they suck the life out of the rest of us.
As for you, Don’t expect less out of the people you support and more out of your enemies. We are all human.
Lisa Van S
Ohhhkay!!
Huh?
Lisa Van S,
I’m just curious — why do you flippantly make pseudoscientific pronouncements (”Chantix has an SSRI component” followed by “Component vs. properties,.. all the same to me” for example) without any evidence and then demand that others “back up their claims” ?
I’ve got no particular ax to grind w/ regard to Chanitx, but your methods of debate are remarkable.
Lisa Van S
Huh?
Industry taught me well. Hmmm,… Methods,…like Industry’s favorite line; That its the disease, and not the drug, knowing full well that their antidepressants would maime and kill thousands of children.
Industry’s Motto; If you cant defend your drug, attack the Child.
Have you ever seen any of Pfizer’s Internal Documents on Zoloft?.. I have. Documents that they didnt want to be seen by the Public,..I believe they call it, protecting Trade Secrets..
No Ax to Grind here; As Senator Grassley would say,.. Sunshine is your best disinfectent..
hopeful quitter
I’ve been sitting on a box of Chantix for a month while I “take a deep breath.” I’ve tried to quit so many times. I feel this may be the last. If I can’t do it this time I’m afraid I’ll just accept the inevitable. A slow, agonizing, painfull death following a long unsuccsesful battle with COPD, emphsema, cancer, ect. I’m 40, been smoking for 30 years. No joke, just lots of shame. As a minister’s daughter I have always felt shame. It wasn’t until I grew up a bit in my own faith and realized why my parents were so adamit about my NOT smoking. They weren’t concerned with “how it looked.” They truely were concerned with the health issues and the damage to my “temple.” I’ve dealt with the guilt issues. I’ve put all of that into perspective. I really am afraid of not dying, but “living” with the consequeses of smoking. I’m afraid to take that first pill because I’m afraid I’ll fail. I have met so many challenges in my life and met them head on. I just can’t seem to get this one behind me. Any words of encouragemnt out there? Does anyone understand my fears? I don’t really care about side effects,drug lobbys etc. I just want to get healthy. This may be my last chance.
Nathan
Come on Lisa — get a grip. Chantix is a nicotinic receptor partial agonist. If you have evidence that there is has activity as a seratonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI), please let me know where you got that information. The FDA filings for Chantix are required to have a huge panel of selectivity data. I’m sure that Chantix hits other targets weakly, but the seratonin transporter is not one of them.
Nathan
Lisa,
Here’s your quote:
“Industry taught me well. Hmmm,… Methods,…like Industry’s favorite line; That its the disease, and not the drug, knowing full well that their antidepressants would maime and kill thousands of children.”
Are you really saying that the pharma industry has willingly and knowingly maimed and killed thousands of children?
It’s one thing to say something factually incorrect (like your statements about the SSRIs). It’s another to accuse my colleagues of mass murder. You used to be just an annoyance to me – but this accusation raises the bar. I now know you to be a sick and twisted individual hell-bent on revenging the problems your daughter regardless of common sense and courtesy.
Next time you accuse want someone of murder, please contact the police department and not a blog.
Lisa Van S
Come on Nathan, FDA, like Pfizer, do not disclose all data, and this is not just limited to chantix. They hide under the guise of trade secrets. Lets not forget that FDA tried to muzzle their own Scientist, who handled the SSRI Suicide Data. I guess it will take civil litigation to air this one out. Oh, thats right Pfizer’s fighting for Preemption, so we may never know.
Youre a Scientist, right? Any time you alter brain receptors you have the possibility of bizarre side effects.
Brian
Smoker’s brains are already altered. Post mortem examination shows an increase in nicotine receptors. They are no longer normal people unless they smoke. Nicotine’s toxicity alone is much lower than when it is obtained from smoking tobacco. Quitting smoking is best for their future health but it can be just as difficult as quitting any narcotic. It will vary from person to person depending upon their past exposure levels to nicotine. Chantix blocks the effect of smoking so they may not be happy with how they feel. If they smoke to correct an underlying depression or psychosis this may return. Why is this so hard to believe? Chantix comes from Peter Rost’s old company. How many secrets do you think they can keep?
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
I dont recall using the word Murder, You did..
You have just proven me correct; When Industry cant defend their drug, they attack the child.
You know me to be a sick and twisted individual, Hope you can prove that in a court of law.
Nathan
You made the quote. Here it is again:
“Industry taught me well. Hmmm,… Methods,…like Industry’s favorite line; That its the disease, and not the drug, knowing full well that their antidepressants would maime and kill thousands of children.â€
That statement accuses my industry and colleagues murder (or maybe manslaughter). Either back off that statement or prove it. From what I could gather on the internet, you’ve been unsuccessfully trying to prove it for years.
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
Internal GSK Douments
http://www.paxilharmschildren.com
You have a problem with the accusations I have made then Contact GSK’s Attorney. I can assure you that GSK Monitors everything I say.
Sam Griffin
King & Spalding
Atlanta, Georgia
Brian
Depressed children that are untreated or treatment resistant have a higher risk of suicide. Given parenting skills and modern society, it’s no surprise we see an up tick in teenage depression. Rather than be indifferent as in “first do no harm” the search continues for newer and better treatments. Also I think there’s a search for newer and better parents..no luck so far
Lisa Van S
Brian,
According to NamiNJ, parents arent responsible for a child’s depressed state or Mental Illness.
http://www.naminj.org
hopeful quitter
wow. I’ve been reading to hopfully educate myself about smoking ceasation and Chantix.
Sounds like Lisa Van S doesn’t care for the product much, but it’s hard to take her seriously. She sounds like she’s just not a very happy person, with a huge personal agenda. This is the first time I’ve ever “blogged”. I’m done. Too much negativity for me. Signing off. Good luck arguing the same points over and over and over… I’m out!
Brian
NamiNJ???? In the case of a defect , I would consult the original manufacturer rather than a political organization. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and parents are a child only reliable resource… unless, that is, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree….
hopeful quitter
Can’t let it go. Lisa Van S, Yes parents are reponsible if they in fact CAUSE the condition. It is well proven that early child abuse/neglect causes significant phycotic behavior and mental illness in children. This can last a life time. W/o treatment depression and suicidal thoughts/tendencies are inevitable. Simply put for you, Lisa, not validating a child’s worth early on, CAN and DOES cause mental illness. I don’t have time to go into detail about this with you, you can read about it for yourself. Look up “chilren w/o a conscience.” It’s sad, but it’s treuly what happens to an otherwise healthy child following severe mental/physical/sexual abuse in early childhood.
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Industry funds Nami, They even sponsor their meetings. Industry must believe they are Reputable, you wouldnt donate millions to those are not
See Here:
Http://www.namipharma.org
Lisa Van S
hopeful quiter
I was being sarcastic!! The Majority of Abused children go on to be successful, decent human beings. I also have a problem with labeling children who are abused as mentally ill. I would prefer to label the abuser.
henry
chantix, drug manufactured by which company? ok pfizer, then in my opinion chantix could be xanax or zoloft re-gifted? I will have to check the ingredients.
just another example of post-marketing dollars put to work, I think.. but could be wrong.
Can be criminal when federal programs/non-for-profits push “anti-addiction” drugs like these. (they work for some people perhaps, don’t have the unbiased data though) depression sometimes is the route cause of addictions.
as always addiction is much more complicated than taking a pill, something ignored by the drug companies, but should be addressed on a case by case basis with a qualified good doctor not a DTC advert.
Brian
Hey nicotine is a drug and it caused the problem maybe a drug can solve the problem..You must have majored in biology….We all know what cold turkey is worth..Any bets that the ingredients are not xanax or zoloft..unless you got your suppply from canada or china
Lisa Van S
Brian,
Please enlighten me…
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
I will quote you: Its one thing to say say something factually incorrect(like your statements about SSRI’s)
and then “that statement accuses my Industry and Colleagues”.
If you work for a Company who produces and distributes Antidepressants, I strongly suggest “you” correct your statements.
with the exception of Prozac, SSRI’s have never been FDA approved for the use for children and adolescents W/MDD. Why?.. Because Safety and Efficacy have not been astablished,… this was determined through Industry’s own data. Can one assume by your comments, that you, your collegues and industry, that its ok to defy Congress and FDA and promote SSRI’s for children. This is against the law, and I suggest if you work for Industry,..Maybe you should seek the advice of Industry Counsel before making further statements that SSri’s are safe and effective for the treatment of MDD in children.
Nathan
Lisa, I made no such claim about SSRIs. I don’t know whether they are safe or effective in children. However, doctors prescribe SSRIs to adolescents — not pharmaceutical companies. Are you going to get mad at the car manufacturer when an drunk driver kills your friend in an auto accident? Of course not.
I have plenty of collegues who work on SSRIs. Are you accusing them of covering up data that is leading to the death of children?
Lisa Van S
Brian.
What, no comment on Idustry’s contributions to Nami..
Brian
Doctors can prescribe anything they want off label to anyone….Why blame pharma. Doctors are trying to help sick kids as a last resort after the parents have failed. The way around this is to obtain consent from children to be included in a trial..Whoops that’s right they can’t give their consent.they’re children…Congress can make any law they wish to restrict pharma ..it doesn’t have to make any sense…
Brian
We also hand out millions in free drug samples..Someone told you that parents aren’t responsible for depression in children.. How would anyone be able to make such a statement and be sure. They are just blowing smoking…
Donna
Brian,
I somehow get the feeling that you are blaming parent’s for depressed children, and have to say I disagree, granted yes there are many children who’s problem’s stem from their homelife, but even at my age can still rememeber the dulldrum’s of being a teenager, and now with three of my own,I’m seeing it from the other side, granted there are children who have not had a great life and suffer their whole live’s thru on account of it, but i have friend’s who grew up in sh-t’sville and made a good life without the help of drug’s, no counciling,just prove’s it can be done, I know for a fact that at anytime I could of complained about any of my kid’s to the doctor and gotten a script written, no test’ no nothing, just based on me and what I said, in turn I could of gone to my own Dr. complained and gotten the same for myself…scarey how easy it is to get drug’s………
Donna
Brian,
would also like to say that’s it’s become very easy for parent’s to drug children that really don’t have anything wrong with them, this is the world we live in, and yes i think parent’s do it more for themselve’s sometime’s more than for their kid’s sad but true…guess i’m lucky
Lisa Van S
Nathan
“I made no such claims”,. yes you did,.. Quote,..Its one thing to say something factually incorrect(like statements about SSRI’s.
You dont know whether they are “Safe and Effective”..May I suggest that you read the Manufacturer’s PI. Better yet,.. all you need to do is read the DTC’s in magazines
“You have plenty of collegues who work on SSRI’s”. One Question??? Why do they fail,…
to tell you the “TRUTH”.
If you feel the need to verbally attack me, thats fine,..Im an Adult,..and with that said,.. keep any and all criticsms you have concerning my child to yourself.
I continue to hear that the Pharmaceutical Industry is Powerful, Thats not true…Because,…There is nothing more powerful, than the unconditional love, a Mother has for her Child, a gift bestowed upon us by God..
Lisa Van S
Donna, Champaigne Bubbles!!!
Donna
Thankyou Lisa, and not at all surprised that ur hubby mistook ED, for Eddie, while there was a football game on……..LOL
Donna
Lvs, nix the backlash they sound the same as you just flipside of the coin………..
Lisa Van S
Donna,
Happy Birthday!!! Promise not to give away your age!!!!!
Donna
in your best interest, your right behind me..and i’m not depressed…..
Lisa Van S
Donna,
Too late,.. champaigne bubbles went to your head… hmmm never know what the morning brings. H.S The good old days
Donna
Someeone’s bound to tell us to get a chat ROOM…
Donna
Bubble’s over anti’s????????……yes
Lisa Van S
Donna,
Dont feel depressed!!! Recently took an Internet Depression test..I failed,..they even diagnosed Bipolar. Folks are desperate for sales I guess.
Donna
that’s funny iv’e known you for almost 40 yr’s and all we do is laugh…..
Lisa Van S
Like I said, folks are desperate for sales!!! But,.. Scientifacally Im too old for a Bipolar diagnosis.OOOOHHH by definition of the old DSMIV.
Donna
I don’t think I’m too old for anything and that mean’s you to……..
Donna
Hey remember when me and you……….nevermind…
Lisa Van S
Hey,.. you still have kids to get off to school, The son graduated from university on Monday!! Yea hey!!
Donna
By the way looking forward to the meeting on the 16th should be interesting with election’s and all, can’t wait to hear what he has to say..
Donna
yeah still pumping them out in the am….that’s cool made it this far…all doing well even middle one….you know middle child syndrome, just take stereo away work’s every time
Lisa Van S
Hmmm,. Me Too,. Cant wait to hear what the special Interest groups have to say. Should be very interesting.
Donna
If they read and want to…that’s a step in the right direction…another Poser…waste of time oh well next time..and there will be a next time
Donna
by the way this chantix crap say’s it could effect people with bipolar, what happen’s if your not diagnosed as bipolar and take it??????
Lisa Van S
Bipolar Diagonisis,..the ultimate escape…..Theyd never allow me to get away with it
Donna
is’nt anyone who laugh’s one minute and in deep thought the next a candidate..done it often…
Lisa Van S
Remember when,..New Bruswick comes to mind
Laurie
” Doctors are trying to help sick kids as a last resort after the parents have failed.”
But I thought mental illness was a chemical imbalance?
Brian
It is unless you consider an imbalance normal..which many do
The brain, even the spiritual and highly emotional side of the brain functions via biochemistry. So teach those children well….. abdicate or mishandle the responsibility and they’ll spend the rest of their life trying to self medicate to find their happiness..
Laurie
Ah, Brian….now you are starting to sound like me!! It isn’t as simple as a chemical imbalance, contrary to the commercials.
a different lisa
has anyone on this blog quit using chantix when previous treatment has failed? my uncle went off chantix claiming suicidal thoughts, but he didnt realize he was having them til after the news coverage..
my father is taking chantix now..
the drug monograph provided in the package lists suicidal ideation as a rare side effect..however, does not list suidical thoughts in the table comparing the drug to placebo..
anyone have such thoughts?
thanks
Brian
Laurie
This time I’ll say it in english
It is a complicated chemical imbalance..and tough to fix in later life
What did you think?
Brian
A different Lisa
Folks that smoke to mask an underlying psychosis or depression may have a tough time walking away from cigarettes no matter what method they use to quit. Chantix is not an antipsychotic or antidepressant. It blocks the pleasurable effects obtained from smoking tobacco. A depressed patient may want to ask their doctor about zyban which has an antidepressant profile
Laurie
“Folks that smoke to mask an underlying psychosis or depression ”
Brian, this is the biggest load of bull that I have ever read. Smoking will NOT cover a psychosis! Nicotine,like Chantix, is NOT an antipsychotic nor an antidepressant. You might want to talk to your company before making ridiculous claims like that.
The facts are that some will have bad reactions to Chantix. Others will do great. But to imply that a bad reaction is due to an underlying psychosis is irresponsible and untrue…but it sure attempts to cover the manufacturer from those who have a bad reaction.
No drug is perfect, as you have told us over and over again. This applies in the case of Chantix also.
Clin Psychologist
The last thing I would defend is nicotine, and I have plenty of suspicions about Chantix too.
But there is no question that some people smoke in response to agitation that may reflect either a psychosis or depression. (Just like people smoke, or eat, in response to other stressors.)
That has nothing to do with suggesting nicotine (or Chantix) is an antipsychotic or antidepressant.
Brian
One can’t deny that nicotine may be used to mask a variety of maladys.. MASK..I say. Not being a smoker I can’t say if it works. .By all means you are welcome to keep smoking..but once you do.. you discard a large portion of your credibility in complaining.
I would not recommend taking chantix if you don’t smoke. I would look upon it more benevolently as an attempt to help the poor fools who took up smoking., It was not designed by criminals..Let’s be a little more mature about the side effect of drugs. They ALL help more than they harm….Thank God ya’ll weren’t around to criticize civil war surgeons else you wouldn’t have access to worry free cosmetic procedures..
Lisa D
Hi
Ive been taking chantix for almost two weeks now and stopped smoking 3 days ago. Didnt feel any thing different accept for the side effects it gives. And may I say some scary and unpleasent ones. I asked my doctor about the side effects and she said the most common effects are bad dreams and upset stomach. I said what about the chest pains? The shortness of breath? The constant urination that keeps you up all night? Forget about the dreams and the upset stomach. If Im not peeing or passing gas Im holding my chest and catching my breath. I am still going crazy without the smokes as if I went cold turkey ,which I did once befor and it felt the same way except without the added side effects from chantix. My doctor by the way said just stop the pills. For some reason I dont think that is a good idea to stop with out weening myself off. Does anyone out there know if you can stop on the drop of a dime? Because Mr. Glaxo forgot to inform the doctors in the event that someone has to stop the medication due to horrific side effects. What they should do.
Jane
Brian,
“It is a complicated chemical imbalance”. I would love to see any proof you have to be making such a claim. Maybe you would like to explain why DTC adds cannot make this claim. At most, all anyone can say interms of it being a chemical imbalance is it is “thought to be a chemical imbalance”.
Brian
What do you think goes on in that mass of jello up there???
Clin Psychologist
To say it again - anyone who has spent time in an in-patient psych. ward or in partial hospitalization knows the centrality of smoking. The overall assumption is that it has to do with stress reduction (whatever that may also mean).
But there are also interactions with meds. The most recent issue of the Health Research Group’s “Best Pills, Worst Pills” discusses the interactions between _caffeine_ and some of the SSRIS. Nicotine has been associated with impacting the concentration of some of the antipsycholtics in plasma.
Clin Psychologist
Below a link to one of several recent studies on interactions between nicotine and antipsychotics:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17714691?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Jane
Brian,
Just because there are chemical reactions occurring in the brain does not mean mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance.
Pharma has made this claim that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance for years, yet they have no proof this is the case.
It’s been a great arguement for them, it’s sold them billions of pills, without any scientic proof that a chemical imbalance is in fact the cause.
Brian
When will you reveal the real cause of mental illness
Laurie
“When will you reveal the real cause of mental illness”
When they find it! As of today it is still undetermined. Neurotransmitters may have a role, but to try to simplify it to “increase serotonin” is naive.
Brian
Who is they?..I’ll give you a hint..you hate them
That’s right..the same people making drugs are learning more about mental illness…Medicines also function as tools to help decipher the enigma of the disease rather than just the symptoms…Just like the civil war surgeons who helped fuel the cosmetic reconstruction industry into what it is today..with your continued patience..we’ll get there
Lisa Van S
The Media and The Chemical Imbalance Theory of Depression:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u37j12152n826q60/fulltext.pdf
Brian
“All thoughts feelings and motions [sic] in the brain are mediated by the release of chemicals in brain pathways. Every person’s brain is unique leading us to have different traits and abilities. Just because your brain works in a particular way does not mean that you have a chemical imbalanceâ€
This is pure semantics. As I said earlier, Mental illness is chemical imbalance unless you consider an imbalance normal. Many untreated mentally ill folks. As long as they don’t harm anyone else they can be who they want to be. I guess the best advice is while you may be against treatment of the mentally ill in a constructive way don’t prevent someone other than you from getting treatment. While you may consider Janice Joplin, Jim Morrison, Anna Nicole Smith, Britney Spears as perfectly normal, I find it hard to view the handicapped as a form of entertainment..Ted Bundy, Son of Sam and the Green River killer need help
Lisa Van S
Britney is suffering from the side effects of her antidepressants,..Prozac, to Paxil and Xanax, and back to Prozac again. The World is getting a good look at an Antidepressant Induced, “Involuntary Intoxication” aka “Behavioral Toxicity” from her so called “Wonder DRugs”. Anna Nicole and her Son died from theirs.
It was a nice try anyway!!
TOdd
Wow, thanks for the insightful medical advice Lisa.
Wow, I thought Anna Nicole and her son died from being famous and having access to narcotics. I think Marilyn Monroe died from the same thing, do you thing she was on Lexapro as well. See, famous people made bad decisions even before SSRI’s were developed. But again, great arm chair diagnosis - you really should charge someone for that insight.
BTW, I have also had “Involuntary Intoxication†aka “Behavioral Toxicityâ€, but mine was from drinking too much. Can I still call it involuntary? I didn’t start out trying to get completely out of control. I wish I could have blamed something for it, but that was before it was fashionable to blame your meds for poor personal choices.
Laurie, when you get it figured out, patent it. It is pretty easy to tell people they are wrong, it is a little harder to give any solutions. How is your bench research going?
Lisa Van S
Marilyn Monroe did die from Prescription Drugs…
No “DEFENSE” for Voluntary Intoxication, aka alcohol,..
Involuntary Intoxication is taking a Prescription as prescribed. Since antidepressants have been on the Market, Courts are recognising it as a defense. Check out http://www.ssristories.com Cases have been won using that defense.
Lisa Van S
Insightful Medical Advice,..nope, Just an observation. Lilly cant be happy about TMZ reporting that Brit is on Prozac, because if she does have depression the Prozac sure ain’t working!!!
Lisa Van S
Todd’
Are you suggesting that Lexapro is a Narcotic?
Atlex
Lisa, since you’re such a medical expert that you can diagnose a possible side effect in someone who you’ve never met who may or may not be taking a particular drug and who may or may not be an alchoholic and who may or may not have mental illness, would you mind telling me why my head hurts after reading many of your postings? I look forward to your advanced medical diagnosis.
Brian
Actually, poorly raised children, whether by stage moms, over protective parents, over-bearing or excessive self-esteem boosters or activist child-advocates leads to children that are under prepared for how the rest of us will view them and treat them. That’s why, as a last resort, doctors look for help in treating the poor outcome with medication. Many times this does work but when it doesn’t and there is a public search for the guilty, the parent’s responsibility must be aired and weighed equally along with any pharmacological intervention. Parents must accept their failures prior to solely blaming medication which was not designed to overcome the broad range of bizarre behavior exhibited by modern parents in order to find the truth.
Lisa Van S
You are assuming that I know nothing, in regards to Britney’s SSRI use, and for privacy sake,.. I will leave it at that.
Again, not a medical Dignosis, just an observation.
I’ll just pray that this young woman survives, and right now it doesnt look very good.
Atlex
Lisa, I agree with you…I am asuming that you know knowing. You don’t know what drugs she is actually taking (unless you are stalking her or something). You don’t know if she is exhibiting side effects or just bad behavior.
I’m not making a medical diagnosis about what you do or don’t know; I’m just making an observation!
Atlex
Correction of previous post:
Lisa, I agree with you…I am assuming that you know nothing. You don’t know what drugs she is actually taking (unless you’re stalking her or something). You don’t know if she is exhibiting side effects or just bad behavior.
I’m not making a medical diagnosis about what you do or don’t know; I’m just making an observation!
Lisa Van S
Atlex,
Stalking her… I dont think so,.. not my style. Individuals seek me out for information. Especially when it concerns Paxil, if you dont believe me, just ask GSK.
Clin Psychologist
Neurochemsistry probably plays a role in much of what we call “mental illness.” But to reduce it to that is to ignore the last hundred years of what we’ve learned about itneractions between mind/body/milieu and the way traumata play out in complex layers and contexts - and how different that is for particular patients.
Is there a place for pills? Sure. Is it the place medication has attained during the past decade? Almost certainly not. That is more about marketing than medicine.
Laurie
“Laurie, when you get it figured out, patent it. It is pretty easy to tell people they are wrong, it is a little harder to give any solutions. How is your bench research going?”
One of the biggest parts of scientific research is recognizing when something is going in the wrong direction. Making widespread claims of success/cause without the data to back it up is not part of the scientific process.
For years science as tried to find the definitive cause of mental illness. All we ended up with is symptom management, which may be as good as it gets with a situation as complicated as mental illness.
I never claimed to have the answers….but I do know that a blanket treatment with ssri’s has varied results. Denying that some have bad reactions to this category of drugs is not doing anyone any favors.
Clin Psychologist…you hit it on the head. It’s not a simple, uncomplicated process, which is what the marketing leads people to believe.
Lisa Van S
Clin Psychologist
Interesting read:
Serotonin and Depression: A Disconnect between the Advertisements and the Scientific Literature
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/archive/1549-1676/2/12/pdf/10.1371_journal.pmed.0020392-L.pdf
Pat
Does anyone know how long withdrawal symptoms last that is after taking chantix
Brian
From Chantix web site. Note that it doesn’t work for everybody..
http://www.chantix.com/content/Common_Questions.jsp
Patients should be treated with CHANTIX for 12 weeks. For patients who have successfully stopped smoking at the end of 12 weeks, an additional course of
12 weeks treatment with CHANTIX is recommended to further increase the likelihood of long-term abstinence.
Patients who do not succeed in stopping smoking during 12 weeks of initial therapy, or who relapse after treatment, should be encouraged to make another attempt once factors contributing to the failed attempt have been identified and addressed.
Beth
I have taken chantix it really did help with the cravings, or I should say I wasn’t peeling myself off the ceiling. I had gas and bloating as a result of the side effects. I wasn’t suicidal but, I really didn’t care about anything pretty calm. I talked to my doctor about some of the side effects and he stated that nicotine withdrawl has some nasty side effects also. So people that may have associated the side effects of Chantix with the drug may have in fact been having withdrawl effects from the nicotine I see in the blogs that was not addressed. I also currently take interferone beta 1-a for MS so the depression thing would be a 2 fold for me since it has the same warnings. To me quitting smoking is better for your health just make sure someone knows what your taking and tell them what the side effects of the drug are and to keep an eye on you and keep in touch with your Doctor.
Tony
WEll I am one who has successfully stopped smoking using Chantix. In fact I have only 3 days left of my prescription. But it has all come at a price. I have never suffered with such depression and anxiety in my entire life. I have literally spent the entire past month and a half constantly crying. WTF. Almost 2 months of such horrible depression that I have often wondered if it has all been worth it. Everyone around me is speechless. They just can’t understand. Even my Dr. thinks it is all in my head. And here on Sat I read the findings of this new report linking Chantix to a host of psychiatric conditions. Is it me or the Chantix?
Chris
Tony,
I am not qualified to judge but from pesonal experience of a close friend who quit drinking and also later smoking (he’s a physician) he said that stopping smoking was the hardest thing he’s ever done and it came with all sorts of unexpected effects like you experienced. And he did it without medication so it seems the nicotine withdrawal may be the cause not necessarily the drug, as Beth suggests. I’d say well done, and if you got this far keep it up.
Jeana
I would like to share that I have been off Chantix for a month and I am definately not myself. I am feeling very emotional and just plain crazy. For the first time in my life, I think I may go seek medical help for mental issues. I am destroying my marriage with my severe moodiness and my regular Dr. informed me he has heard of no side effects like this from his other paitients. Every drug will effect different people differently. Chantx causing psychosis definately has high probability in my book. However, it works great to help a person quit smoking!
Myra
i have no history of mental illness or bipolar disorder. i was a closet smoker and then smoking took over and i wanted to stop. chantix really works… i did have just about all of the bad side effects… afer one month i thought i was really going nuts. i was raging at people at work. could not focus.. was miserable (no joy) hated everyone even my pets and myself. wanted nothing to do with anyone. my joints hurt and i ached very badly. my digestive systems was messed up. i was exhausted to the point where only if i closed my eyes was i comfortable because i had to force them open by will. my dreams were long and freaky weird realistic. that started out as kind of cool and fun but after a week i just wanted rest. when i started having mild hallucinations and raged at some poor guy who works for me, i stopped the drug. it took only four weeks for this to all happen… i feel alot better now am way less angry.. my intestines have not recovered yet but i understand the drug is in my system for a good week after stopping … The good news is i quit smoking… my husband has been banished to smoke outside the house and he will start the drug this week.. he is aware of what happened to me. he is a 2 pack a day smoker and he needs help to stop. a friend of ours has been on chantix for 3 months and she is fine, just minor stuff… she has stopped smoking… i guess my lesson is - watch out and be careful you could be a rager (like me) or have any of the other problems. i know i shouldnt have just stopped but i really thought i was going nuts and i was afraid to taper off. we are all different. pros and cons… smoking is awful… this was a minihell but … i feel free of the smoking… i do not intend to start again. i even have one cigerette in my room and when i think about it (as i do now that i am off the chantix) i say … you can have it if you want to … but then i remember - one leads to packs and i know i dont want to go through the quiting again.