Comments on: The Controversial Vytorin Trial Ends In Failure http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/ News, Comment and Conversation Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:24:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Dr. Hans J. Kugler, PhD http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-270397 Dr. Hans J. Kugler, PhD Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:56:18 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-270397 Excellent discussion points! Lots of logic! Yet, it's all the same, all over again. Just different drug names! News item in newspapers - - accompanied by 2-page ads for Vytorin - - - for several days. Drug company keeps making billions! Like the LANCET (2006;368:451-58) Antiretroviral Therapy Cohort Collaboration: 20,000 AIDS patients: HAART has no - zilch - effect on death rate from AIDS up to one year. "Ah," some drug company shareholder will say, "but if antiretroviral drugs are taken longer than 1 year?" Answer: death rate goes up. Dah! When diagnosed HIV-positive, some people sell everything to by (at $ 5,000 to 8,000/mo.) these - ineffective drugs. Lots of newspaper ads, publicity "ask your doctor," and ignoring data - - - and the mega-billion-dollar HAART drug sales continue. Could it be that all this HIV=AIDS is wrong? Powerpoint lecture at www.duesberg.com. That the - - only statstical chlesterol/heart disease connections - - are mostly wrong - - - and taking the drugs isn't worth it? antiagingforme.com Excellent discussion points! Lots of logic!
Yet, it’s all the same, all over again. Just different drug names!
News item in newspapers - - accompanied by 2-page ads for Vytorin - - - for several days. Drug company keeps making billions!
Like the LANCET (2006;368:451-58) Antiretroviral Therapy Cohort Collaboration:
20,000 AIDS patients: HAART has no - zilch - effect on death rate from AIDS up to one year. “Ah,” some drug company shareholder will say, “but if antiretroviral drugs are taken longer than 1 year?” Answer: death rate goes up. Dah!
When diagnosed HIV-positive, some people sell everything to by (at $ 5,000 to 8,000/mo.) these - ineffective drugs.
Lots of newspaper ads, publicity “ask your doctor,” and ignoring data - - - and the mega-billion-dollar HAART drug sales continue.
Could it be that all this HIV=AIDS is wrong?
Powerpoint lecture at http://www.duesberg.com.
That the - - only statstical chlesterol/heart disease connections - - are mostly wrong - - - and taking the drugs isn’t worth it?
antiagingforme.com

]]> By: CV MD http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-188907 CV MD Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:16:15 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-188907 Hi James, Unfortunately, you have advanced obstructive disease that no medication can reverse or cure. These drugs are designed to primarily treat those who have 30-70% occlusion more than anything else so that events can be reduced. Even in the most ideal circumstances, only about 40% of heart attacks acn be prevented. There is still much work to be done. Best wishes for a non-eventful recovery. Hi James,

Unfortunately, you have advanced obstructive disease that no medication can reverse or cure. These drugs are designed to primarily treat those who have 30-70% occlusion more than anything else so that events can be reduced. Even in the most ideal circumstances, only about 40% of heart attacks acn be prevented. There is still much work to be done.

Best wishes for a non-eventful recovery.

]]> By: James Robinette http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-188619 James Robinette Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:32:00 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-188619 I have been taking Vytorin for several years. Three weeks ago I had 2 major heart attacks and required quadruple bypass heart surgery. Two main arteries were over 90% blocked and the two smaller arteries were 85-90% blocked. The bottom line is the Vytorin failed it's promise and in my opinion is a failure. I have been taking Vytorin for several years. Three weeks ago I had 2 major heart attacks and required quadruple bypass heart surgery. Two main arteries were over 90% blocked and the two smaller arteries were 85-90% blocked. The bottom line is the Vytorin failed it’s promise and in my opinion is a failure.

]]> By: Cholesterol - good, bad, and indifferent « Impactiviti blog http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-104663 Cholesterol - good, bad, and indifferent « Impactiviti blog Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:56:29 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-104663 [...] the kerfuffle with Vytorin. As you have probably heard, Merck and Schering-Plough have been roundly criticized for stalling on [...] [...] the kerfuffle with Vytorin. As you have probably heard, Merck and Schering-Plough have been roundly criticized for stalling on [...]

]]> By: The End of Combo Drugs? Not! « Impactiviti blog http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-104624 The End of Combo Drugs? Not! « Impactiviti blog Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:27:17 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-104624 [...] Merck/Schering-Plough just took a very public beating for Vytorin results that were none too keen. And, for Pfizer, Caduet has been an ongoing [...] [...] Merck/Schering-Plough just took a very public beating for Vytorin results that were none too keen. And, for Pfizer, Caduet has been an ongoing [...]

]]> By: AV Block http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-101402 AV Block Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:21:58 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-101402 Dr. Remulac, Come on... get real. this 720 patient trial was not powered to detect differences in cardiovascular mortality. that to me is the bottom line... you're overinterpreting the data. also, 500,000 people in the US pale in comparison to the numbers who would benefit from cholesterol-lowering drugs. Dr. Remulac,

Come on… get real. this 720 patient trial was not powered to detect differences in cardiovascular mortality. that to me is the bottom line… you’re overinterpreting the data. also, 500,000 people in the US pale in comparison to the numbers who would benefit from cholesterol-lowering drugs.

]]> By: Dave http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-99506 Dave Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:55:35 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-99506 I'm a preventive cardiologist and have been doing cardiovascular risk factor management on my patients for over 20 years. Lovastatin and simvastatin were the two worst statins for patients to tolerate. Unfortunately, rosuvastatin is next. The two best are atorvastatin for efficacy and pravastatin for safety. If you want the most bang for your buck, then generic pravastatin is your choice! It also has some of the best eveidence for event reduction in all types of situations. I’m a preventive cardiologist and have been doing cardiovascular risk factor management on my patients for over 20 years. Lovastatin and simvastatin were the two worst statins for patients to tolerate. Unfortunately, rosuvastatin is next. The two best are atorvastatin for efficacy and pravastatin for safety. If you want the most bang for your buck, then generic pravastatin is your choice! It also has some of the best eveidence for event reduction in all types of situations.

]]> By: dwight m http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98650 dwight m Wed, 16 Jan 2008 05:57:37 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98650 I agree with l cheng, if low doses of vytorin have the same outcome as high doses of statin, the liver and muscle adverse reaction risk may be reduced,thereby being a better choice of treatment. However, if an increase in plaque or even the same amount of plaque is found in the vessels the treatment may be flawed. Also, people should be alert to the fact that statins may decrease co-enzyme Q-10 and weaken the heart muscle,bringing on possibe cardiovascular events....... I agree with l cheng, if low doses of vytorin have the same outcome as high doses of statin, the liver and muscle adverse reaction risk may be reduced,thereby being a better choice of treatment. However, if an increase in plaque or even the same amount of plaque is found in the vessels the treatment may be flawed. Also, people should be alert to the fact that statins may decrease co-enzyme Q-10 and weaken the heart muscle,bringing on possibe cardiovascular events…….

]]> By: Tomas http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98491 Tomas Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:08:30 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98491 Cheng, So what are we supposed to do - wait until the companies take their good old time getting us the event results? First due in 2009, then 2010, now 2011 and maybe 2015 before it's all over. In the meantime, at least $20-30 billion will be spent on drugs that have proven nothing. Oh wait, VBig Pharma wants us to trust them. These drugs will be good for you. And they'll only cost you a small fortune. Steve Nissen is a little controversial, but he's not that far off. Why pay bundles for something when you can get by spending pennies a day on something just as good. The payers will be asking the same questions. Cheng,

So what are we supposed to do - wait until the companies take their good old time getting us the event results? First due in 2009, then 2010, now 2011 and maybe 2015 before it’s all over. In the meantime, at least $20-30 billion will be spent on drugs that have proven nothing. Oh wait, VBig Pharma wants us to trust them. These drugs will be good for you. And they’ll only cost you a small fortune. Steve Nissen is a little controversial, but he’s not that far off. Why pay bundles for something when you can get by spending pennies a day on something just as good. The payers will be asking the same questions.

]]> By: L Cheng http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98137 L Cheng Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:58:33 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/the-controversial-vytorin-trial-ends-in-failure/#comment-98137 What we need are outcome results, not carotid IMT results which could be quite variable and U/S tech dependent. Trial pop of 720 doesn't impress me as being adeq powered. S Nissen of Cleveland Clinic doesn't impress me with his proposed ban on use of vytorin. Afterall he trusted meta-analysis using trials as short as 8 weeks in his condemnation of avandia, while receiving grant money in ongoing actos trials; and then explaing comparing apples and oranges in his conclusion was reasonable. He should realize this fact: we use vytorin 10/10 in place of zocor 40 mg or lipitor 20 mg which many pts could not tolerate due to side effects and get similar LDL lowerings effects and probably similar outcome. What we need are outcome results, not carotid IMT results which could be quite variable and U/S tech dependent. Trial pop of 720 doesn’t impress me as being adeq powered. S Nissen of Cleveland Clinic doesn’t impress me with his proposed ban on use of vytorin. Afterall he trusted meta-analysis using trials as short as 8 weeks in his condemnation of avandia, while receiving grant money in ongoing actos trials; and then explaing comparing apples and oranges in his conclusion was reasonable. He should realize this fact: we use vytorin 10/10 in place of zocor 40 mg or lipitor 20 mg which many pts could not tolerate due to side effects and get similar LDL lowerings effects and probably similar outcome.

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