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	<title>Comments on: Vioxx Appeal Turns On Preemption Controversy</title>
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	<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/</link>
	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ol cranky</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-111020</link>
		<dc:creator>ol cranky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shade:

you're correct, the supplement industry is regulated by the FTC and they do a pretty pitiful job (possibly because they're outside their realm of experience in evaluating the claims and are unable to understand that, on the rare occasion the cited clinical studies have actually been conducted, they haven't been conducted using the actual product being advertised).  Not that I have a great deal of faith in the FDA, I do think FDA regulation of OTC supplements/vitamins, etc. would be a marked improvement from the lax governance by the FTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shade:</p>
<p>you&#8217;re correct, the supplement industry is regulated by the FTC and they do a pretty pitiful job (possibly because they&#8217;re outside their realm of experience in evaluating the claims and are unable to understand that, on the rare occasion the cited clinical studies have actually been conducted, they haven&#8217;t been conducted using the actual product being advertised).  Not that I have a great deal of faith in the FDA, I do think FDA regulation of OTC supplements/vitamins, etc. would be a marked improvement from the lax governance by the FTC.</p>
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		<title>By: shade</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110779</link>
		<dc:creator>shade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>ol' cranky:

I agree that OTC and other supplements ought to be factually accurate.  As I understand it though - DTC advertising of OTC drugs are monitored by the FTC, not the FDA.  And some have been getting dinged lately for unsupported claims - like the "male enhancement" drug whose name has slipped my mind - Enzyte?  They had to change their ad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ol&#8217; cranky:</p>
<p>I agree that OTC and other supplements ought to be factually accurate.  As I understand it though - DTC advertising of OTC drugs are monitored by the FTC, not the FDA.  And some have been getting dinged lately for unsupported claims - like the &#8220;male enhancement&#8221; drug whose name has slipped my mind - Enzyte?  They had to change their ad.</p>
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		<title>By: ol cranky</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110755</link>
		<dc:creator>ol cranky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110755</guid>
		<description>Lisa:

With all due respect, ads for pharmalot in the star-ledger (and vice versa) are very different from DTC issues.  A reader  is capable and permitted to decide for him/herself whether to read or subscribe to either publication.  patents, in general, neither have the experience or training to know enough about prescription pharmacologic interventions to decide when it is safe and appropriate for them to do so (heck, most people take way too much latitude with their use of OTCs and so-called supplements).  As such, these drugs are dispensed only with a prescription from a licensed HCP.  DTC is used to sway people to self diagnose, pressure their HCP to prescribe and/or find someone else who will get them access if their HCP will not.  In a health care setting, people are patients, not just consumers.

IMNSHO, DTC advertising of any and all systemically available treatments (including OTC drugs, "nutritional supplements" and vitamins) should be limited to those that meet GMP standards and should be required to be factually accurate.  No manufacturer should be able to advertise and make claims for their product that have not been substantiated (i.e. "in clinical studies, people lost significant weight. . ." with a small disclaimer that the claims have not been approved by the FDA).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa:</p>
<p>With all due respect, ads for pharmalot in the star-ledger (and vice versa) are very different from DTC issues.  A reader  is capable and permitted to decide for him/herself whether to read or subscribe to either publication.  patents, in general, neither have the experience or training to know enough about prescription pharmacologic interventions to decide when it is safe and appropriate for them to do so (heck, most people take way too much latitude with their use of OTCs and so-called supplements).  As such, these drugs are dispensed only with a prescription from a licensed HCP.  DTC is used to sway people to self diagnose, pressure their HCP to prescribe and/or find someone else who will get them access if their HCP will not.  In a health care setting, people are patients, not just consumers.</p>
<p>IMNSHO, DTC advertising of any and all systemically available treatments (including OTC drugs, &#8220;nutritional supplements&#8221; and vitamins) should be limited to those that meet GMP standards and should be required to be factually accurate.  No manufacturer should be able to advertise and make claims for their product that have not been substantiated (i.e. &#8220;in clinical studies, people lost significant weight. . .&#8221; with a small disclaimer that the claims have not been approved by the FDA).</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110285</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110285</guid>
		<description>Justice in Michigan,

Sometimes, NJ Issues trump,.. Sorry to say ,.Michigan Issues. Hope you undersatand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justice in Michigan,</p>
<p>Sometimes, NJ Issues trump,.. Sorry to say ,.Michigan Issues. Hope you undersatand.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110276</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110276</guid>
		<description>Bob

Takes one to know one!.. If I were you, I wouldnt read anything into my conversation with Ed.... Its a NJ thing,... An Issue unfamiliar to you. Gee,.. thought you got hit by a bus!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob</p>
<p>Takes one to know one!.. If I were you, I wouldnt read anything into my conversation with Ed&#8230;. Its a NJ thing,&#8230; An Issue unfamiliar to you. Gee,.. thought you got hit by a bus!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110237</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110237</guid>
		<description>Wow...
Someone with the initials LVS seems to be in a manic state right now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;<br />
Someone with the initials LVS seems to be in a manic state right now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Justice in Michigan</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110235</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice in Michigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110235</guid>
		<description>p.s.  Someone may raise the question: But doesn't the FDAAA now allow FDA to make label changes unilterally?

Response:

1.  Yes, but the preemptors were arguing their case when the situation was as above.  So, from their perspective, the change was irrelevant.

2.  FDA may technically have that authority, but will they use it?  What degree of delay will be provided through a process of company appeals, hearings, reviews, etc. etc. etc.

My guess is that may be about as easy to squeeze out fourteen months delay in the situation now as during the situation then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s.  Someone may raise the question: But doesn&#8217;t the FDAAA now allow FDA to make label changes unilterally?</p>
<p>Response:</p>
<p>1.  Yes, but the preemptors were arguing their case when the situation was as above.  So, from their perspective, the change was irrelevant.</p>
<p>2.  FDA may technically have that authority, but will they use it?  What degree of delay will be provided through a process of company appeals, hearings, reviews, etc. etc. etc.</p>
<p>My guess is that may be about as easy to squeeze out fourteen months delay in the situation now as during the situation then.</p>
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		<title>By: Justice in Michigan</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110228</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice in Michigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110228</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile, back to the topic...Thanks re: info on Larck, Ed.

This is precisely the kind of case that, ideally, should be the one upon which the Supreme Court rules on preemption.  Here we have FDA's own Advisory Committee recommending a label change with CV warning.  Then the famous fourteen months.  During which what happened?  Was this careful scientific review of available data?  A conscientious attempt by the experts, in FDA and company, asessing the issues, pooling the studies, weighing the risks and benefits, to come up with the most appropriate label?

Or was it something entirely different.

Most of us have read the descriptions (especially in the WSJ) of what actually transpired during those fourteen months.  It provides a pretty good picture of how the time was actually used, what the motives and tactics were on Merck's side, how they fared (very well, thank you), and so on.

So you have to imagine the same process, but entirely without the possibility of civil liability.  None whatsoever.

Does anyone imagine the Vioxx label would _ever_ have changed?  Before APPROVe?  I would genuinely love to hear the scenario in which it would have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, back to the topic&#8230;Thanks re: info on Larck, Ed.</p>
<p>This is precisely the kind of case that, ideally, should be the one upon which the Supreme Court rules on preemption.  Here we have FDA&#8217;s own Advisory Committee recommending a label change with CV warning.  Then the famous fourteen months.  During which what happened?  Was this careful scientific review of available data?  A conscientious attempt by the experts, in FDA and company, asessing the issues, pooling the studies, weighing the risks and benefits, to come up with the most appropriate label?</p>
<p>Or was it something entirely different.</p>
<p>Most of us have read the descriptions (especially in the WSJ) of what actually transpired during those fourteen months.  It provides a pretty good picture of how the time was actually used, what the motives and tactics were on Merck&#8217;s side, how they fared (very well, thank you), and so on.</p>
<p>So you have to imagine the same process, but entirely without the possibility of civil liability.  None whatsoever.</p>
<p>Does anyone imagine the Vioxx label would _ever_ have changed?  Before APPROVe?  I would genuinely love to hear the scenario in which it would have.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110103</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ed,

That was a very Diplomatic response!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>That was a very Diplomatic response!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Silverman</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110095</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Silverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/01/vioxx-appeal-turns-on-preemption-controversy/#comment-110095</guid>
		<description>Lisa,

Since Pharmalot is owned by The Star-Ledger, it will get promoted in its pages. But the editorial content is run independently of the effort to hunt and gather info to place in the newspaper, and vice versa.

ed at Pharmalot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>Since Pharmalot is owned by The Star-Ledger, it will get promoted in its pages. But the editorial content is run independently of the effort to hunt and gather info to place in the newspaper, and vice versa.</p>
<p>ed at Pharmalot</p>
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