Comments on: Congress To Probe Vytorin Chatter On CafePharma http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/ News, Comment and Conversation Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:28:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Justice in Michigan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153354 Justice in Michigan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:28:18 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153354 PB - You're right about the bathroom. Shows the limits of metaphors. I don't think anyone suggested that anything on CP was "proof." Dingell, et. al. are interested in investigating whether there is anything going on (which, I agree, could include sabotage by a competitor). As conveyed, my personal hope is that CP not reveal the identities of any such posters. PB - You’re right about the bathroom. Shows the limits of metaphors.

I don’t think anyone suggested that anything on CP was “proof.” Dingell, et. al. are interested in investigating whether there is anything going on (which, I agree, could include sabotage by a competitor). As conveyed, my personal hope is that CP not reveal the identities of any such posters.

]]> By: Skeptical http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153300 Skeptical Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:59:59 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153300 Some of the posts on CafePharma border on committing fraud--the AZ posts encouraging sales reps to submit bogus safety reports about Crestor to Public Citizen to tie up investigative time. If it's not fraud, it's certainly unethical. For the most part, it's mostly whining & character assassinations. Sophomoric but commonplace Some of the posts on CafePharma border on committing fraud–the AZ posts encouraging sales reps to submit bogus safety reports about Crestor to Public Citizen to tie up investigative time. If it’s not fraud, it’s certainly unethical.

For the most part, it’s mostly whining & character assassinations. Sophomoric but commonplace

]]> By: FAM http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153184 FAM Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:36:37 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153184 I have to agree that CafePharma is not a reliable place to be looking for definitive facts. The well-publicized postings only serve to confirm that here was a strong undercurrent inside SP that the ENHANCE study was in deep trouble. Whether this was second-hand or hear-say, it does not appear to have come from any of those who really knew. They are the individuals that ran the study, collected and looked at the data, analyzed it, and then reported their findings to executives within the company. Who they reported to and when will have to come directly from them. If the Congress and other parties want to know what really happened, then they need to question those individuals who were involved, whether they say they were or not. This line of investigation is the only one that has a chance of bearing any fruit in this situation. I have to agree that CafePharma is not a reliable place to be looking for definitive facts. The well-publicized postings only serve to confirm that here was a strong undercurrent inside SP that the ENHANCE study was in deep trouble. Whether this was second-hand or hear-say, it does not appear to have come from any of those who really knew. They are the individuals that ran the study, collected and looked at the data, analyzed it, and then reported their findings to executives within the company. Who they reported to and when will have to come directly from them. If the Congress and other parties want to know what really happened, then they need to question those individuals who were involved, whether they say they were or not. This line of investigation is the only one that has a chance of bearing any fruit in this situation.

]]> By: Pharma Boy http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153170 Pharma Boy Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:25:59 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-153170 Justice: Cafe Pharma is not owned by a pharma company; it is not their bathroom to police. Some things to think about here; from a precedent view Do allegations (or even observation) of sexual harassment within pharma companies that appear within Cafe Pharma get investigated by the govt? How about the pharma companies? What happens when false data or rumor is posted and it comes out that it comes from a competitive company posting as someone else. Who gets sued now? Who is at fault? What happens when people complain about the meds they take online in other forums and say things like taking drug X turned my hair purple; is this an adverse event and should be observed by the pharma company and reported to the FDA? Should the FDA be skimming all of the web for this information? Should the ‘Health’ Media? This whole thing makes for nice sensational journalism. I mean some people (whom we really do not know who they are) posted some things about a clinical study on a bulletin board system that has time/date stamps and said some potential damming things with crass language, it makes for a nice story. That all of this appears in the press is to be expected (and fine we live in a free society). However that the Govt. (any part of the govt.) feels that this type of information can serve as some kind of proof well I guess we have to agree to disagree. PharmaBoy Justice:

Cafe Pharma is not owned by a pharma company; it is not their bathroom to police.

Some things to think about here; from a precedent view

Do allegations (or even observation) of sexual harassment within pharma companies that appear within Cafe Pharma get investigated by the govt? How about the pharma companies?

What happens when false data or rumor is posted and it comes out that it comes from a competitive company posting as someone else. Who gets sued now? Who is at fault?

What happens when people complain about the meds they take online in other forums and say things like taking drug X turned my hair purple; is this an adverse event and should be observed by the pharma company and reported to the FDA? Should the FDA be skimming all of the web for this information? Should the ‘Health’ Media?

This whole thing makes for nice sensational journalism. I mean some people (whom we really do not know who they are) posted some things about a clinical study on a bulletin board system that has time/date stamps and said some potential damming things with crass language, it makes for a nice story. That all of this appears in the press is to be expected (and fine we live in a free society). However that the Govt. (any part of the govt.) feels that this type of information can serve as some kind of proof well I guess we have to agree to disagree.

PharmaBoy

]]> By: Justice in Michigan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152930 Justice in Michigan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:22:23 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152930 Pharma Boy - I'm not thrilled about going after people's identities. But when the writing on the bathroom wall appears to point fairly specifically to facts that the folks who own the bathroom have formally denied (over and over) knowing... it is hard to see the "humor." Pharma Boy - I’m not thrilled about going after people’s identities. But when the writing on the bathroom wall appears to point fairly specifically to facts that the folks who own the bathroom have formally denied (over and over) knowing… it is hard to see the “humor.”

]]> By: Pharma Boy http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152908 Pharma Boy Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:09:49 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152908 Cafe Pharma is really more entertainment than fact. Its a online place where people who work outside an traditional office environment (e.g. pharma sales reps) get to gather around a virtual water cooler and bitch. I am sure that this is very therapeutic for them. Like any message board a great deal of the things that are said are untrue, unprofessional and outlandish. That the govt. would think this could be a credible source of information is humorous at best. While I appreciate that its an election year and dumping on big pharma is fun and all...I hope that the off color musings of sales reps of cafe pharma are taken as gossip written on a virtual bathroom wall. Cafe Pharma is really more entertainment than fact. Its a online place where people who work outside an traditional office environment (e.g. pharma sales reps) get to gather around a virtual water cooler and bitch. I am sure that this is very therapeutic for them. Like any message board a great deal of the things that are said are untrue, unprofessional and outlandish. That the govt. would think this could be a credible source of information is humorous at best. While I appreciate that its an election year and dumping on big pharma is fun and all…I hope that the off color musings of sales reps of cafe pharma are taken as gossip written on a virtual bathroom wall.

]]> By: Peter Rost http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152642 Peter Rost Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:54:50 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152642 And, let's not forget who first reported about the CafePharma posts . . . BrandweekNRX. And who first reported the suspicious Schering-Plough insider trading . . . BrandweekNRX. Digging for the truth. Every day. BrandweekNRX. And, let’s not forget who first reported about the CafePharma posts . . . BrandweekNRX.

And who first reported the suspicious Schering-Plough insider trading . . . BrandweekNRX.

Digging for the truth. Every day. BrandweekNRX.

]]> By: Justice in Michigan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152519 Justice in Michigan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:33:43 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-152519 Thanks, Ed. That helps and is appreciated. I think everyone understands that life does not come with "firewalls" (kinda like "all drugs have dangers") so that discretion often advisable, and our responsibility, too. Even more, truth! Thanks, Ed. That helps and is appreciated.

I think everyone understands that life does not come with “firewalls” (kinda like “all drugs have dangers”) so that discretion often advisable, and our responsibility, too. Even more, truth!

]]> By: Ed Silverman http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-151621 Ed Silverman Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:08:40 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-151621 Hi Justice, To answer your question about providing info about the folks who post comments here, the short answer is I'm not interested in passing that along to anyone. And I would resist. Hope that helps, ed Hi Justice,

To answer your question about providing info about the folks who post comments here, the short answer is I’m not interested in passing that along to anyone. And I would resist.

Hope that helps,
ed

]]> By: Justice in Michigan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-151528 Justice in Michigan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 04:41:33 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/02/congress-to-probe-vytorin-chatter-on-cafepharma/#comment-151528 Agree with above, but there is a difference between being a whistleblower and sharing bits of things overheard, etc.. The bar for success as a whistleblower is much higher, and the act much riskier (even if potential reward is there). The majority of whistleblowers now do so anonymously - perhaps not ideal, but understandable. Agree with above, but there is a difference between being a whistleblower and sharing bits of things overheard, etc.. The bar for success as a whistleblower is much higher, and the act much riskier (even if potential reward is there).

The majority of whistleblowers now do so anonymously - perhaps not ideal, but understandable.

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