Comments on: US Supreme Court Won’t Hear Zoloft Defense Case http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/ News, Comment and Conversation Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:19:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Lisa Van S http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-304027 Lisa Van S Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:55:54 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-304027 Nathan,.. Let me know if you still trust the Judicial System Newly Freed Widow of Marine may sue DA http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-poison19apr19,1,4271374.story Nathan,.. Let me know if you still trust the Judicial System
Newly Freed Widow of Marine may sue DA

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-poison19apr19,1,4271374.story

]]> By: pg http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290696 pg Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:29:00 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290696 Callie said: "None of the above <i>[referring to the child or the drug pusher]</i>… the PARENTS/GUARDIANS responsible for the well-being of the child." Unlike drugs given out by 'trusted' physicians that can cause pschosis, mania, akathisia,etc, drug pushers handing out drugs with similar properties can (and sometimes do) hang around outside schoolyards when parents or guardians are not around and use various ways of persuading children that their wares are safe and good. The purpose being of course that the trusting child will soon become a future 'customer', a practice which has a strangely familiar ring to it outside the world of illegal drugs. So the original question still stands. If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then? The child, or the drug pusher? Callie said: “None of the above [referring to the child or the drug pusher]… the PARENTS/GUARDIANS responsible for the well-being of the child.”

Unlike drugs given out by ‘trusted’ physicians that can cause pschosis, mania, akathisia,etc, drug pushers handing out drugs with similar properties can (and sometimes do) hang around outside schoolyards when parents or guardians are not around and use various ways of persuading children that their wares are safe and good. The purpose being of course that the trusting child will soon become a future ‘customer’, a practice which has a strangely familiar ring to it outside the world of illegal drugs.

So the original question still stands.

If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then?
The child, or the drug pusher?

]]> By: Lisa Van S http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290654 Lisa Van S Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:59:49 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290654 Nathan, His defense was involuntary intoxication, Christopher received a medication prescribed by a Physician, and his Grandmother gave it to him as directed. Christopher was titrated up to a 200mg. The average adult is prescribed 50 to 100mg. Christopher was a 96lb, 12 year old. Alcohol is considered voluntary intoxication. Nathan,

His defense was involuntary intoxication, Christopher received a medication prescribed by a Physician, and his Grandmother gave it to him as directed. Christopher was titrated up to a 200mg. The average adult is prescribed 50 to 100mg. Christopher was a 96lb, 12 year old.

Alcohol is considered voluntary intoxication.

]]> By: Nathan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290507 Nathan Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:31:55 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290507 Jaynesday, You make a good point. I'm going to have to think about that one... (I am pro-preemption, BTW) Even if the drug did "push him over the edge", shouldn't he still be held accountable for his actions? We prosecute drunk-drivers for manslaughter all the time. They don't sue the beer companies. (granted, in this case we are talking about a minor who had no choice in taking the drug) Jaynesday,
You make a good point. I’m going to have to think about that one… (I am pro-preemption, BTW)

Even if the drug did “push him over the edge”, shouldn’t he still be held accountable for his actions? We prosecute drunk-drivers for manslaughter all the time. They don’t sue the beer companies. (granted, in this case we are talking about a minor who had no choice in taking the drug)

]]> By: Nathan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290485 Nathan Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:17:26 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290485 AA, The reason I stated that I was not an expert on side-effects was to point out that (with the exception of Lisa) no one here has special knowledge of this boy or his condition. We know what we do through the media reports. My comments were really in regard to all those above who assume that the meds cause the boy to do it. I was simply pointing out that 24 well-educated people in multiple court cases heard ALL THE EVIDENCE and came to a different conclusion. Maybe Lisa has access to evidence that was not introduced in the trial. But I'll doubt anyone else in this conversation does. I'll try to keep an open mind about whether or not pysch drugs can cause violence. But in this case I have far more confidence in our criminal justice system than I do in the various opinions stated above. AA,
The reason I stated that I was not an expert on side-effects was to point out that (with the exception of Lisa) no one here has special knowledge of this boy or his condition. We know what we do through the media reports. My comments were really in regard to all those above who assume that the meds cause the boy to do it. I was simply pointing out that 24 well-educated people in multiple court cases heard ALL THE EVIDENCE and came to a different conclusion. Maybe Lisa has access to evidence that was not introduced in the trial. But I’ll doubt anyone else in this conversation does.

I’ll try to keep an open mind about whether or not pysch drugs can cause violence. But in this case I have far more confidence in our criminal justice system than I do in the various opinions stated above.

]]> By: AA http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290382 AA Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:21:32 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-290382 Having been on ADs since 1995, including SSRIS, like Truthman, I consider myself an expert in these side effects. After Zoloft worked great for me for about a year and a half, it started causing severe agitation. When I was on Celexa, I had severe atheskesia (sp?). There is no doubt in my mind that if I had stayed on that med, I was headed for severe problems. I also developed suicidal ideation from Prozac being cold turkeyed. Because of my experiences and in reading about Christopher Pittman's history, there is no doubt in my mind that meds caused him to do what he did. By the way, I don't automatically assume that just because someone is taking an SSRI, that causes them to have committed the crime. But it is clear in this case that it did. Nathan, I applaud your honesty in saying you're not an expert on side effects. But if that is the case, how can you really be in a position to comment on this case? AA Having been on ADs since 1995, including SSRIS, like Truthman, I consider myself an expert in these side effects.

After Zoloft worked great for me for about a year and a half, it started causing severe agitation.

When I was on Celexa, I had severe atheskesia (sp?). There is no doubt in my mind that if I had stayed on that med, I was headed for severe problems.

I also developed suicidal ideation from Prozac being cold turkeyed.

Because of my experiences and in reading about Christopher Pittman’s history, there is no doubt in my mind that meds caused him to do what he did.

By the way, I don’t automatically assume that just because someone is taking an SSRI, that causes them to have committed the crime. But it is clear in this case that it did.

Nathan, I applaud your honesty in saying you’re not an expert on side effects. But if that is the case, how can you really be in a position to comment on this case?

AA

]]> By: Lisa Van S http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-289122 Lisa Van S Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:21:17 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-289122 Callie Roberts, Are you serious,... His grand parents followed the directions of the prescribing Physician,... and what did they get!!!... A cemetary Plot!.. Callie Roberts,

Are you serious,… His grand parents followed the directions of the prescribing Physician,… and what did they get!!!… A cemetary Plot!..

]]> By: Jaynesday http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-288993 Jaynesday Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:22:03 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-288993 Nathan Sorry for jumping into this late, I just skimmed through some of the posts and one thing jumped out at me. The part about how many (24) people thought that the conviction was warranted and isn't this enough good enough evidence that the drug maker wasn't at fault. I'm not sure what opinion of the preemption issue is but I would suspect you support it? Anyway its interesting that the justificaton that supporters of preemption use is that we shouldn't allow juries to second guess the decision of the FDA's approval and therefore the safety of a device or drug. Here however you use just the opposite argument. We should take the word of a jury in deciding that a drug is safe. Which way should it be? Nathan
Sorry for jumping into this late, I just skimmed through some of the posts and one thing jumped out at me. The part about how many (24) people thought that the conviction was warranted and isn’t this enough good enough evidence that the drug maker wasn’t at fault. I’m not sure what opinion of the preemption issue is but I would suspect you support it?
Anyway its interesting that the justificaton that supporters of preemption use is that we shouldn’t allow juries to second guess the decision of the FDA’s approval and therefore the safety of a device or drug. Here however you use just the opposite argument. We should take the word of a jury in deciding that a drug is safe. Which way should it be?

]]> By: truthman30 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-287702 truthman30 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:49:59 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-287702 "pg If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then? The child, or the drug pusher" Great analogy pg... This is exactly the point.. These meds can cause mind altering side effects in most(if not all) people who take them... “pg
If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then?

The child, or the drug pusher”

Great analogy pg…

This is exactly the point..
These meds can cause mind altering side effects in most(if not all) people who take them…

]]> By: Callie Roberts http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-287607 Callie Roberts Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:47:40 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/04/us-supreme-court-wont-hear-zoloft-defense-case/#comment-287607 pg said... "If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then? The child, or the drug pusher?" None of the above... the PARENTS/GUARDIANS responsible for the well-being of the child. pg said… “If a 12 year old had been given cocaine or LSD or heroin by the local drug pusher and then committed a crime while in an ‘illegal’ drug psychosis - who would be to blame then?

The child, or the drug pusher?”

None of the above… the PARENTS/GUARDIANS responsible for the well-being of the child.

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