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	<title>Comments on: Glaxo&#8217;s Garnier: &#8220;I Have No Regrets&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/</link>
	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Former pharma Marketing Exec</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356963</link>
		<dc:creator>Former pharma Marketing Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 01:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356963</guid>
		<description>Pharma/Pharmacist,

Like your thinking.  We need to keep the patient needs front and center.  At times we are so distant from them that we forget what they need, and what it is really like to be them.  Very importantly we need to understand the role we play when we put ourselves between the patient and the doctor.  We do this by conducting patient needs analysis and then re-packaging the information back tot he doctor.  Very often I have seen the information gets filtered to suit our own needs, we need to stop doing this.  

We should support more patient groups to do more research among their patient population and empower them.  We cannot access this information for all the obvious reasons.  Let the patient groups get better armed with information and provide it to us.  That is true transparency/collaboration.

We need to stop being us (pharma and doctors) versus them (patients)...

We could get on the right path of re-establishing trust and improving the public perception of the industry and health care over all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pharma/Pharmacist,</p>
<p>Like your thinking.  We need to keep the patient needs front and center.  At times we are so distant from them that we forget what they need, and what it is really like to be them.  Very importantly we need to understand the role we play when we put ourselves between the patient and the doctor.  We do this by conducting patient needs analysis and then re-packaging the information back tot he doctor.  Very often I have seen the information gets filtered to suit our own needs, we need to stop doing this.  </p>
<p>We should support more patient groups to do more research among their patient population and empower them.  We cannot access this information for all the obvious reasons.  Let the patient groups get better armed with information and provide it to us.  That is true transparency/collaboration.</p>
<p>We need to stop being us (pharma and doctors) versus them (patients)&#8230;</p>
<p>We could get on the right path of re-establishing trust and improving the public perception of the industry and health care over all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356960</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 18:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356960</guid>
		<description>Pharma/Pharmacist:  Yes, ASP is complex and in the context of best price it's even moreso.  I always thought Merkc's single price policy made sense--it certainly gave them a lot of goodwill in the retail sector.  Merck went off-message when it lobbied for the Medicaid rebate system as an alternative to State formularies back in the early 90s.  Extending deep rebates to managed care organizations was not a wise decision.

Anyway, I'm sure companies would prefer a one-price policy but, like sampling, dtca and enforcement of certain provisions in wholesaler contracts that would decrease drug diversion, taking a leadership position can put the company at a severe competitive disadvantage.

I like your thinking, Pharma/Pharmacist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pharma/Pharmacist:  Yes, ASP is complex and in the context of best price it&#8217;s even moreso.  I always thought Merkc&#8217;s single price policy made sense&#8211;it certainly gave them a lot of goodwill in the retail sector.  Merck went off-message when it lobbied for the Medicaid rebate system as an alternative to State formularies back in the early 90s.  Extending deep rebates to managed care organizations was not a wise decision.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m sure companies would prefer a one-price policy but, like sampling, dtca and enforcement of certain provisions in wholesaler contracts that would decrease drug diversion, taking a leadership position can put the company at a severe competitive disadvantage.</p>
<p>I like your thinking, Pharma/Pharmacist.</p>
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		<title>By: Pharma /Pharmacist</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356958</link>
		<dc:creator>Pharma /Pharmacist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 15:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356958</guid>
		<description>Gentlemen,
Please be advised that ASP is a very complicated formula that is defined by "best price". With that being said, if price concessions are offered to specific groups relative to the drug's availability through that supply chain, then it alone creates an avenue for redefining customers as those available for price concessions. This greatly impacts best price to the government. Merck was just fined regarding similar activities. It might be worth reconsidering the ancient Merck &#38; Co. philosophy to offer only a single price. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gentlemen,<br />
Please be advised that ASP is a very complicated formula that is defined by &#8220;best price&#8221;. With that being said, if price concessions are offered to specific groups relative to the drug&#8217;s availability through that supply chain, then it alone creates an avenue for redefining customers as those available for price concessions. This greatly impacts best price to the government. Merck was just fined regarding similar activities. It might be worth reconsidering the ancient Merck &amp; Co. philosophy to offer only a single price. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356957</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 15:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356957</guid>
		<description>ATlex, thanks for pointing that out.  I did misread his discussion of spread.  Not enough coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ATlex, thanks for pointing that out.  I did misread his discussion of spread.  Not enough coffee.</p>
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		<title>By: Atlex</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356956</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 14:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356956</guid>
		<description>Bob,

Based on the mention of "spread" and "Medicare", you may have misinterpreted Pharma/Pharmacists point around pricing.  I think he was talking about the practice of setting an artificially high AWP for a product and selling it at a much lower price.  Given my understanding of your industry knowledge, you are already aware that this incents the provider to choose the product based on the profits generated by the large spread. Of course, you are also aware that new reimbursement practices based on ASP rather than AWP have eliminated this practice in Medicare Part B. 

Atlex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>Based on the mention of &#8220;spread&#8221; and &#8220;Medicare&#8221;, you may have misinterpreted Pharma/Pharmacists point around pricing.  I think he was talking about the practice of setting an artificially high AWP for a product and selling it at a much lower price.  Given my understanding of your industry knowledge, you are already aware that this incents the provider to choose the product based on the profits generated by the large spread. Of course, you are also aware that new reimbursement practices based on ASP rather than AWP have eliminated this practice in Medicare Part B. </p>
<p>Atlex</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356954</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 14:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356954</guid>
		<description>Nathan and Pharma/Phamacist, thank you for your posts--they are two of the most eloquent descriptions of the challenges facing pharma and new paradigms for an efficient operating model.

Pharma/Pharmacist, the only point with which I disagree is differential pricing.  Although it has political repurcussions, it is the most efficient way to achieve both societal goals of welfare improvement.  A single global price, for example, would be too low to generate cash flow and operating margins to sustain R &#38; D and too high for the least developed geographic markets.  Regional price convergence is occuring due to transparency and the EURO and some price concessions are being implemented but I don't think a single price is desirable.  Within the US, I don't see a way to move away from price discrimination among customer segments unless Medicare moves to a reference pricing system, which I think is unlikely since attempts would re-open the entire law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan and Pharma/Phamacist, thank you for your posts&#8211;they are two of the most eloquent descriptions of the challenges facing pharma and new paradigms for an efficient operating model.</p>
<p>Pharma/Pharmacist, the only point with which I disagree is differential pricing.  Although it has political repurcussions, it is the most efficient way to achieve both societal goals of welfare improvement.  A single global price, for example, would be too low to generate cash flow and operating margins to sustain R &amp; D and too high for the least developed geographic markets.  Regional price convergence is occuring due to transparency and the EURO and some price concessions are being implemented but I don&#8217;t think a single price is desirable.  Within the US, I don&#8217;t see a way to move away from price discrimination among customer segments unless Medicare moves to a reference pricing system, which I think is unlikely since attempts would re-open the entire law.</p>
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		<title>By: Pharma /Pharmacist</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356948</link>
		<dc:creator>Pharma /Pharmacist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 13:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356948</guid>
		<description>Nathan,
Time to usher in a new marketing paradigm for those new entities to be released. The new paradigm would have the following elements:
1. Smaller sales force with experience in sales and health care- nursing, pharmacy, physical therapy.
2. More extensive usage of physicians and clinical scientists in medical affairs.
3. Greater availability of patient education about the disease state on both the web and in print.
4. Take a stand on expensive lunches and dinners at high end restaurants....deli trays and meetings at mid end restaurants.
5. Greater focus on the plight of the patient for both information and deductibles for high end biologics.
6. No special pricing to targeted groups so that the perception of selling on the spread is eliminated and no issue with best price gaming to medicare.
To sum it up... the healthcare providers are looking for transparency and integrity. A small biologic company can readily road test a new selling model. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,<br />
Time to usher in a new marketing paradigm for those new entities to be released. The new paradigm would have the following elements:<br />
1. Smaller sales force with experience in sales and health care- nursing, pharmacy, physical therapy.<br />
2. More extensive usage of physicians and clinical scientists in medical affairs.<br />
3. Greater availability of patient education about the disease state on both the web and in print.<br />
4. Take a stand on expensive lunches and dinners at high end restaurants&#8230;.deli trays and meetings at mid end restaurants.<br />
5. Greater focus on the plight of the patient for both information and deductibles for high end biologics.<br />
6. No special pricing to targeted groups so that the perception of selling on the spread is eliminated and no issue with best price gaming to medicare.<br />
To sum it up&#8230; the healthcare providers are looking for transparency and integrity. A small biologic company can readily road test a new selling model. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Pharma /Pharmacist</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356947</link>
		<dc:creator>Pharma /Pharmacist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 13:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356947</guid>
		<description>Nathan,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356944</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 10:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356944</guid>
		<description>Justice,
Frankly, most (researchers) that I talk to at my company really don't think about the "big picture" a whole lot.  They dislike the CEOs and blame a lot of our problems on management.  But I think those people are neglecting to notice that the entire ground we are standing on is shifting under our feet.  The FDA is slowly (or quickly) changing its guidelines.  It used to be that drugs were only required to be "safe and efficacious".  Now, the FDA is requiring new drugs to be shown to be either safer or more efficacious than previous treatments.  You can't blame them for that - they have congressmen calling them murderers. 

To give you an idea of the "hopelessness" that most scientists see for the future of this industry: I have yet to meet a single scientists in industry who would encourage their kids to enter this profession.  It's not going to last.  As it currently stands, I don't see how my children's generation will have any sort of pharmaceutical innovation taking place.  

In the big picture, governments and their constituents are demanding improvements in cost and safety.  In spite of what FPME would like us to believe, you can't improve both simultaneously.  Given our current technology, development costs (price) and safety are completely dependent on one another.  I believe that society's demands both to improve both simultaneously is causing the entire system we have to slowly implode.  

In the auto industry, when safety improvements are mandated by the government, the auto industry simply raises the price to accommodate the new demands.  In the pharma industry, we are rapidly loosing our ability to increase prices to accommodate new demands.  Sooner or later, it just won't be economically feasible to develop new drugs -- and this business will dissolve completely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justice,<br />
Frankly, most (researchers) that I talk to at my company really don&#8217;t think about the &#8220;big picture&#8221; a whole lot.  They dislike the CEOs and blame a lot of our problems on management.  But I think those people are neglecting to notice that the entire ground we are standing on is shifting under our feet.  The FDA is slowly (or quickly) changing its guidelines.  It used to be that drugs were only required to be &#8220;safe and efficacious&#8221;.  Now, the FDA is requiring new drugs to be shown to be either safer or more efficacious than previous treatments.  You can&#8217;t blame them for that - they have congressmen calling them murderers. </p>
<p>To give you an idea of the &#8220;hopelessness&#8221; that most scientists see for the future of this industry: I have yet to meet a single scientists in industry who would encourage their kids to enter this profession.  It&#8217;s not going to last.  As it currently stands, I don&#8217;t see how my children&#8217;s generation will have any sort of pharmaceutical innovation taking place.  </p>
<p>In the big picture, governments and their constituents are demanding improvements in cost and safety.  In spite of what FPME would like us to believe, you can&#8217;t improve both simultaneously.  Given our current technology, development costs (price) and safety are completely dependent on one another.  I believe that society&#8217;s demands both to improve both simultaneously is causing the entire system we have to slowly implode.  </p>
<p>In the auto industry, when safety improvements are mandated by the government, the auto industry simply raises the price to accommodate the new demands.  In the pharma industry, we are rapidly loosing our ability to increase prices to accommodate new demands.  Sooner or later, it just won&#8217;t be economically feasible to develop new drugs &#8212; and this business will dissolve completely.</p>
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		<title>By: HorusCat</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/glaxos-garnier-i-have-no-regrets/#comment-356943</link>
		<dc:creator>HorusCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 10:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13666#comment-356943</guid>
		<description>Justice,
You ask a good question.  I don't know if they really understand what is going on.  Just when our company makes a change that I think is in line with doing business a new way, they do something else that undermines it.  One thing they are doing is taking a lot more input from the field, so maybe there is hope down the road.
HC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justice,<br />
You ask a good question.  I don&#8217;t know if they really understand what is going on.  Just when our company makes a change that I think is in line with doing business a new way, they do something else that undermines it.  One thing they are doing is taking a lot more input from the field, so maybe there is hope down the road.<br />
HC</p>
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