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	<title>Comments on: Kiss And Make It Better? A Placebo Pill For Kids</title>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andres L. Jimenez MD</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357536</link>
		<dc:creator>Andres L. Jimenez MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 14:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357536</guid>
		<description>I am honored to be in such a thoughtful discussion. I voted NO.
Why? 
1) Because if you have a hypochodriac he or she and you use placebos you are reinforcing the hypochondriac behavior no matter how old he or she is. The sugar pill will do nothing but create more hypochondriac behavior.
2) In the event that something is really wrong it may delay, as has been already pointed out, proper medical care.
3) The use of a placebo is such a powerful specialized tool that it shouild be administered only by a qualified physician and not even all physicians realy know how to use it.
4) Etc.

Another issue, if the bottle really says that it is to treat hypochondriasis, that in itself is a false claim, since hypochodriasis is a condition and the pill in fact makes it worse, not better.

Unfortunately the phenomenon is a sign of our times.

By the way how does one acquire a cute name such as I have seen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am honored to be in such a thoughtful discussion. I voted NO.<br />
Why?<br />
1) Because if you have a hypochodriac he or she and you use placebos you are reinforcing the hypochondriac behavior no matter how old he or she is. The sugar pill will do nothing but create more hypochondriac behavior.<br />
2) In the event that something is really wrong it may delay, as has been already pointed out, proper medical care.<br />
3) The use of a placebo is such a powerful specialized tool that it shouild be administered only by a qualified physician and not even all physicians realy know how to use it.<br />
4) Etc.</p>
<p>Another issue, if the bottle really says that it is to treat hypochondriasis, that in itself is a false claim, since hypochodriasis is a condition and the pill in fact makes it worse, not better.</p>
<p>Unfortunately the phenomenon is a sign of our times.</p>
<p>By the way how does one acquire a cute name such as I have seen?</p>
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		<title>By: Sepp</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357508</link>
		<dc:creator>Sepp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 09:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357508</guid>
		<description>I understand your concern, James. 

But, as Sam rightly says, many times an antibiotic is given "to do something" not because it is really necessary. 

What you are describing, James, are misinformed or very poorly informed parents. They may make a mess out of any number of situations, and a placebo is not the worst one of these. Of course if a kid is really sick they should consult a doctor. I would say it certainly isn't the presence of a placebo that will prevent such consultation. 

Better more information for parents, and a choice of using a harmless pill for small things (better if it had some vitamin C in it...) that do not need heavy intervention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your concern, James. </p>
<p>But, as Sam rightly says, many times an antibiotic is given &#8220;to do something&#8221; not because it is really necessary. </p>
<p>What you are describing, James, are misinformed or very poorly informed parents. They may make a mess out of any number of situations, and a placebo is not the worst one of these. Of course if a kid is really sick they should consult a doctor. I would say it certainly isn&#8217;t the presence of a placebo that will prevent such consultation. </p>
<p>Better more information for parents, and a choice of using a harmless pill for small things (better if it had some vitamin C in it&#8230;) that do not need heavy intervention.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357409</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 16:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357409</guid>
		<description>I agree with M Helm, MD,  but realistically the habit by physicians to prescribe antibiotics to appease the parents when the infection is viral was so prevalent that we find it difficult to control mutated bacteria.

To a large extent the lay public believes if they don't get a prescription drug
for their perceived illness, their physician has not treated them well and may
go to a physician who will give them a drug.

Lay people now a days have  access to the internet and all kinds of medical
information - some good, some bad, but just because you can read does not
mean you can interpret the information correctly.  Besides many medical
conditions have similar symptoms that the lay-person may not diagnosis correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with M Helm, MD,  but realistically the habit by physicians to prescribe antibiotics to appease the parents when the infection is viral was so prevalent that we find it difficult to control mutated bacteria.</p>
<p>To a large extent the lay public believes if they don&#8217;t get a prescription drug<br />
for their perceived illness, their physician has not treated them well and may<br />
go to a physician who will give them a drug.</p>
<p>Lay people now a days have  access to the internet and all kinds of medical<br />
information - some good, some bad, but just because you can read does not<br />
mean you can interpret the information correctly.  Besides many medical<br />
conditions have similar symptoms that the lay-person may not diagnosis correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357407</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357407</guid>
		<description>No, Sepp, it's not.  Sometimes antibiotics are necessary.  And this goes to the other problem with Obecalp.

By putting this product out there, it sends a message to parents, however subtle, that it's okay to treat a child with a sugar pill.  You will have some situations, perhaps very few and far between, where a parent will ignore their child's condition.

Case in point--when I was around 10, I had pneumonia.  I *knew* I had pneumonia, even though I had never had it before (I also have asthma, so I guess I'm just in tune with my lungs).  My mother thought I was whining, and that it was just a bad cold or the flu.  After a couple of days, she finally took me to the doctor.  Guess what?  Pneumonia.

In my mother's hands, Obecalp is dangerous.

And here's another wrinkle--what if someone (Mom) buys Obecalp and puts it in their medicine cabinet.  A few months later, Dad is taking care of the kids.  Kid is whining--I'm sick, fever, etc.  Dad gives child Obecalp.  Child dies (fever, scurvy, bubonic plague, whatever).  Dad says he thought it was medicine.

That's a lot more dangerous than if the child were given a Prozac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Sepp, it&#8217;s not.  Sometimes antibiotics are necessary.  And this goes to the other problem with Obecalp.</p>
<p>By putting this product out there, it sends a message to parents, however subtle, that it&#8217;s okay to treat a child with a sugar pill.  You will have some situations, perhaps very few and far between, where a parent will ignore their child&#8217;s condition.</p>
<p>Case in point&#8211;when I was around 10, I had pneumonia.  I *knew* I had pneumonia, even though I had never had it before (I also have asthma, so I guess I&#8217;m just in tune with my lungs).  My mother thought I was whining, and that it was just a bad cold or the flu.  After a couple of days, she finally took me to the doctor.  Guess what?  Pneumonia.</p>
<p>In my mother&#8217;s hands, Obecalp is dangerous.</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s another wrinkle&#8211;what if someone (Mom) buys Obecalp and puts it in their medicine cabinet.  A few months later, Dad is taking care of the kids.  Kid is whining&#8211;I&#8217;m sick, fever, etc.  Dad gives child Obecalp.  Child dies (fever, scurvy, bubonic plague, whatever).  Dad says he thought it was medicine.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a lot more dangerous than if the child were given a Prozac.</p>
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		<title>By: Sepp</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357405</link>
		<dc:creator>Sepp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 07:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357405</guid>
		<description>Well, I did vote "yes" on the poll. 

the reason? It is better, I believe, to give a placebo than an actual drug, what with all the side effects...

I understand the ethical qualms. But where are those ethical qualms when doctors prescribe and parents give potentially dangerous meds to kids?

Isn't it infinitely better to give a placebo, helping the kid's own system to overcome whatever it is that's ailing, rather than an antibiotic that runs the risk of ruining the composition of bacterial flora in that little body and cause all kinds of problems later on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I did vote &#8220;yes&#8221; on the poll. </p>
<p>the reason? It is better, I believe, to give a placebo than an actual drug, what with all the side effects&#8230;</p>
<p>I understand the ethical qualms. But where are those ethical qualms when doctors prescribe and parents give potentially dangerous meds to kids?</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it infinitely better to give a placebo, helping the kid&#8217;s own system to overcome whatever it is that&#8217;s ailing, rather than an antibiotic that runs the risk of ruining the composition of bacterial flora in that little body and cause all kinds of problems later on?</p>
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		<title>By: Kozzie</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357402</link>
		<dc:creator>Kozzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357402</guid>
		<description>Of course parents lie to their kids. Why else would we all learn early who Santa, the tooth fairy and easter bunny are? Perhaps the key thing here is a child focused approach - rather than making generic statements about the entire population of small kids in need of a little attention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course parents lie to their kids. Why else would we all learn early who Santa, the tooth fairy and easter bunny are? Perhaps the key thing here is a child focused approach - rather than making generic statements about the entire population of small kids in need of a little attention?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Holford</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357401</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Holford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357401</guid>
		<description>"...so it will trick kids into thinking that they’re taking something..."

I think it's this that unnerves me, more than anything else - you think it's OK to lie flagrantly to your children, and you imagine that they'll still believe you, on another occasion?  I don't think I have an issue with the placebo, but I think it makes more sense to give to the child with a "her: take this.  It has absolutely no therapeutic value, but your own mind's restorative powers will have you feeling better, shortly," would be preferable, and more likely to have the desired effect, too!

Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;so it will trick kids into thinking that they’re taking something&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s this that unnerves me, more than anything else - you think it&#8217;s OK to lie flagrantly to your children, and you imagine that they&#8217;ll still believe you, on another occasion?  I don&#8217;t think I have an issue with the placebo, but I think it makes more sense to give to the child with a &#8220;her: take this.  It has absolutely no therapeutic value, but your own mind&#8217;s restorative powers will have you feeling better, shortly,&#8221; would be preferable, and more likely to have the desired effect, too!</p>
<p>Matt</p>
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		<title>By: condor</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357398</link>
		<dc:creator>condor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357398</guid>
		<description>Much here, since I last looked in, is both witty -- and wise. . . . great thread!

I reappear now, simply to note that mine was also offered in a hurried shorthand for one other thought, as well: This child -- as all do -- needs, and wants, the full-attention of her parents. Not every moment. But from time to time, at least.

In this case, IMO, a pill -- any pill -- is simply the wrong answer. A kiss, a hug, some chicken soup, a good book, read aloud ("Goodnight Moon" by Margaret Wise Brown, read slowly -- deliberately, and with measured cadence) -- and some reassuring attention send (in my biased parental opinion) a better message than "Take this pill -- "p-l-a-c-e-b-o" spelled backwards. Is it clever? Yes.

Is it good parenting? "Not. So. Much." -- but that is just my own, perhaps jaundiced, opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much here, since I last looked in, is both witty &#8212; and wise. . . . great thread!</p>
<p>I reappear now, simply to note that mine was also offered in a hurried shorthand for one other thought, as well: This child &#8212; as all do &#8212; needs, and wants, the full-attention of her parents. Not every moment. But from time to time, at least.</p>
<p>In this case, IMO, a pill &#8212; any pill &#8212; is simply the wrong answer. A kiss, a hug, some chicken soup, a good book, read aloud (&#8221;Goodnight Moon&#8221; by Margaret Wise Brown, read slowly &#8212; deliberately, and with measured cadence) &#8212; and some reassuring attention send (in my biased parental opinion) a better message than &#8220;Take this pill &#8212; &#8220;p-l-a-c-e-b-o&#8221; spelled backwards. Is it clever? Yes.</p>
<p>Is it good parenting? &#8220;Not. So. Much.&#8221; &#8212; but that is just my own, perhaps jaundiced, opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Justice in Michigan</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357396</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice in Michigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357396</guid>
		<description>Lisa! As Chris notes, Ed's piece (and the NYT article) make it clear in the first sentence it was a "she." 

So, as far prejudging .... yikes!

(But I will forgive you- just send me a $499 gift so you don't have to report it.)

I think Doc Helm's comments are terrific.  My experience working with "hypochondriacal" kids (of all genders) is that there is virtually always much more to understand about why they are convinced something is "very wrong" (which rarely has to do with their health).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa! As Chris notes, Ed&#8217;s piece (and the NYT article) make it clear in the first sentence it was a &#8220;she.&#8221; </p>
<p>So, as far prejudging &#8230;. yikes!</p>
<p>(But I will forgive you- just send me a $499 gift so you don&#8217;t have to report it.)</p>
<p>I think Doc Helm&#8217;s comments are terrific.  My experience working with &#8220;hypochondriacal&#8221; kids (of all genders) is that there is virtually always much more to understand about why they are convinced something is &#8220;very wrong&#8221; (which rarely has to do with their health).</p>
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		<title>By: M Helm, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/kiss-and-make-it-better-a-placebo-pill-for-kids/#comment-357390</link>
		<dc:creator>M Helm, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13799#comment-357390</guid>
		<description>I suppose this was bound to happen.  As a pediatrician, I'm appalled.  There are a number of problems here.  First, depending on the age of the child, most don't seek medication.  Second, parents, not the child, are who will seek medication for a child.  Classically, this has been antibiotics (useless in the absence of a bacteria infection) or cough-cold remedies (not proven safe or effective - though sometimes dangerous - in the age ranges of children mostly seen for these complaints).  Sadly, it is also now common for parents to seek medication for undesirable behaviors (many times these have been previously reinforced).  In more than a few cases I know, the undesirable behaviors are in fact developmentally appropriate/expected.  Finally, I've had more than one parent complain when I didn't prescribe the medication they wanted.  This occurred even when I have prescribed a medication for a more fundamental problem I identified which led to the reason for the visit and the problem they perceived.  However, I refuse to be a pill dispensing machine.  I see my responsibility as being to the child I'm treating, not to fulfill the expectation of a parent for anything other than my best effort at quality medical care.

I can't imagine a situation where actually prescribing a placebo would be ethical.  It reinforces the too prevalent idea expressed by others that the solutions to all problems are found in a medicine.  This is a bad practice.  It also undermines the role of a care provider.  Children (especially in middle childhood) are particularly likely to manifest emotional/psychological problems as physical health complaints.  

Sure it may be that "hypochondria" is a way that a child could be seeking attention/attempting to meet an unfilled need - to which the answer of "take this pill" may reinforce some particularly bad practices later on.  It could also be that there are unspoken problems with which the child really has no capacity to cope.  Sexually abused children, children who live with violence, children who can not have stability and security because their parents are removed from them by death, divorce, drugs, or incarceration frequently present with bodily complaints.

It is true that there are some children who have some "hypochondiacal" tendencies.  These are often learned from a parent or someone else in the home.  Typically, it is pretty easy to tell when there is "secondary gain" reinforcing the behavior.  In these cases, extinction of the behavior through removal of the reinforcement is the best approach (though one has to take care to be completely consistent), not changing to a different reward structure (in this case, the placebo pill).  If on the other hand, there is no gain, there is possibly more to the complaints than meets the eye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose this was bound to happen.  As a pediatrician, I&#8217;m appalled.  There are a number of problems here.  First, depending on the age of the child, most don&#8217;t seek medication.  Second, parents, not the child, are who will seek medication for a child.  Classically, this has been antibiotics (useless in the absence of a bacteria infection) or cough-cold remedies (not proven safe or effective - though sometimes dangerous - in the age ranges of children mostly seen for these complaints).  Sadly, it is also now common for parents to seek medication for undesirable behaviors (many times these have been previously reinforced).  In more than a few cases I know, the undesirable behaviors are in fact developmentally appropriate/expected.  Finally, I&#8217;ve had more than one parent complain when I didn&#8217;t prescribe the medication they wanted.  This occurred even when I have prescribed a medication for a more fundamental problem I identified which led to the reason for the visit and the problem they perceived.  However, I refuse to be a pill dispensing machine.  I see my responsibility as being to the child I&#8217;m treating, not to fulfill the expectation of a parent for anything other than my best effort at quality medical care.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine a situation where actually prescribing a placebo would be ethical.  It reinforces the too prevalent idea expressed by others that the solutions to all problems are found in a medicine.  This is a bad practice.  It also undermines the role of a care provider.  Children (especially in middle childhood) are particularly likely to manifest emotional/psychological problems as physical health complaints.  </p>
<p>Sure it may be that &#8220;hypochondria&#8221; is a way that a child could be seeking attention/attempting to meet an unfilled need - to which the answer of &#8220;take this pill&#8221; may reinforce some particularly bad practices later on.  It could also be that there are unspoken problems with which the child really has no capacity to cope.  Sexually abused children, children who live with violence, children who can not have stability and security because their parents are removed from them by death, divorce, drugs, or incarceration frequently present with bodily complaints.</p>
<p>It is true that there are some children who have some &#8220;hypochondiacal&#8221; tendencies.  These are often learned from a parent or someone else in the home.  Typically, it is pretty easy to tell when there is &#8220;secondary gain&#8221; reinforcing the behavior.  In these cases, extinction of the behavior through removal of the reinforcement is the best approach (though one has to take care to be completely consistent), not changing to a different reward structure (in this case, the placebo pill).  If on the other hand, there is no gain, there is possibly more to the complaints than meets the eye.</p>
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