<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Washington Pharmacists Don&#8217;t Have To Sell Plan B</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/</link>
	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Justice in Michigan</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-354919</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice in Michigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-354919</guid>
		<description>I have stayed out of this one, for reasons of tone as well as content.  But here is a question if anyone still cares.

I am reminded of a colleague at my own workplace.  Rather than work on a committee that involved assessing a student's service project at Planned Parenthood, this person did not feel that she, in good conscience, could have anything to do with anything to do with Planned Parenthood.  And so she removed herself from the committe.

Whatever my own views, I respected her choice.  Again, this was not simply "recusing" herself for a particular decision, but leaving the committee entirely, service on which was part of her job responsibilities and for which a portion of her salary specifically came.  So she literally gave up part of her job.  That is a moral choice I can respect.

It is also one which it is almost certainly not realistic, and perhaps not desirable, to expect in general. But, in actual practice, I assume that pharmacists opposed to Plan B most typically choose not to personally dispense it, but do not stand in the way of someone else at that pharmacy doing so, is that correct?  

Or have some people literally considered leaving pharmacy entirely or perhaps finding a pharmacy that is ideologically/theologically in tune with their own views (if there is such a thing)? 

Again, I'm wondering how pharmacists opposed to dispensing B have balanced their commitments to principles, profession, family obligations, company, and so on in actual practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have stayed out of this one, for reasons of tone as well as content.  But here is a question if anyone still cares.</p>
<p>I am reminded of a colleague at my own workplace.  Rather than work on a committee that involved assessing a student&#8217;s service project at Planned Parenthood, this person did not feel that she, in good conscience, could have anything to do with anything to do with Planned Parenthood.  And so she removed herself from the committe.</p>
<p>Whatever my own views, I respected her choice.  Again, this was not simply &#8220;recusing&#8221; herself for a particular decision, but leaving the committee entirely, service on which was part of her job responsibilities and for which a portion of her salary specifically came.  So she literally gave up part of her job.  That is a moral choice I can respect.</p>
<p>It is also one which it is almost certainly not realistic, and perhaps not desirable, to expect in general. But, in actual practice, I assume that pharmacists opposed to Plan B most typically choose not to personally dispense it, but do not stand in the way of someone else at that pharmacy doing so, is that correct?  </p>
<p>Or have some people literally considered leaving pharmacy entirely or perhaps finding a pharmacy that is ideologically/theologically in tune with their own views (if there is such a thing)? </p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m wondering how pharmacists opposed to dispensing B have balanced their commitments to principles, profession, family obligations, company, and so on in actual practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CMC guy</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-354850</link>
		<dc:creator>CMC guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-354850</guid>
		<description>Doc thank you for taking a clear stand which supports Pharmacists as professionals and those who choose to act in accordance with their ethics.  However someone who claims to respect Pharmacists then suggests they are just there to follow orders really does not understand the distinction of offering valued services while maintaining professional and personal standards.  Individuals must judge themselves and the actions they take.  Guess we must adopt anothers view if we are to be objective and board minded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc thank you for taking a clear stand which supports Pharmacists as professionals and those who choose to act in accordance with their ethics.  However someone who claims to respect Pharmacists then suggests they are just there to follow orders really does not understand the distinction of offering valued services while maintaining professional and personal standards.  Individuals must judge themselves and the actions they take.  Guess we must adopt anothers view if we are to be objective and board minded.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Former pharma Marketing Exec</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-352933</link>
		<dc:creator>Former pharma Marketing Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-352933</guid>
		<description>Doc, Yes indeed we will agree to disagree.

Here is my stand on abortion - if a women asks for an abortion then she should have safe access to an abortion by a qualified license professional.

If Dr. prefer not to practice abortion than that is their choice, they obviously do not "market" their ability to perform abortions.  

Pharmacists, follow orders in a most professional manner.  I respect their profession.  But much like a store keeper, they cannot keep certain people out of their store, they must serve every one equally.  

The state of Washington allowing them to pick and chose which prescriptions they fill is ludicrous.  Why? because they could easily ask their colleague to fill the prescription if it offended them so much.  A state allowing anyone who is there to serve the public to legally deny serving some members of the public is not at all in the spirit and context of the constitution of the United States.

Does a pharmacist have the right to not sell drugs to a homosexual to treat his AIDS, because he finds his behavior or sexual preferences deviant to his own beliefs? Should a pharmacist not fill the prescription to treat a STD?  Do these same pharmacist refuse to sell birth control pills, condoms and viagra?

Pharmacists cannot pick and chose their customers, much like general stores cannot bar people from their stores unless they are harmful and interfere with the business of the enterprise.

Do I think your arguments are flawed?  No, I think we all need to broaden our thinking and think about the consequences of the actions.  Do pharmacists judge their customers?  Do doctors judged their patients?  I hope not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, Yes indeed we will agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Here is my stand on abortion - if a women asks for an abortion then she should have safe access to an abortion by a qualified license professional.</p>
<p>If Dr. prefer not to practice abortion than that is their choice, they obviously do not &#8220;market&#8221; their ability to perform abortions.  </p>
<p>Pharmacists, follow orders in a most professional manner.  I respect their profession.  But much like a store keeper, they cannot keep certain people out of their store, they must serve every one equally.  </p>
<p>The state of Washington allowing them to pick and chose which prescriptions they fill is ludicrous.  Why? because they could easily ask their colleague to fill the prescription if it offended them so much.  A state allowing anyone who is there to serve the public to legally deny serving some members of the public is not at all in the spirit and context of the constitution of the United States.</p>
<p>Does a pharmacist have the right to not sell drugs to a homosexual to treat his AIDS, because he finds his behavior or sexual preferences deviant to his own beliefs? Should a pharmacist not fill the prescription to treat a STD?  Do these same pharmacist refuse to sell birth control pills, condoms and viagra?</p>
<p>Pharmacists cannot pick and chose their customers, much like general stores cannot bar people from their stores unless they are harmful and interfere with the business of the enterprise.</p>
<p>Do I think your arguments are flawed?  No, I think we all need to broaden our thinking and think about the consequences of the actions.  Do pharmacists judge their customers?  Do doctors judged their patients?  I hope not&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-351257</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 10:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-351257</guid>
		<description>FPME,
I only respond to your specious arguments. You, my friend are the one who tried to link the use of abortion to decrease 'potential' children who might be raised in an unloving environment. Of course as usual, you try to distance yourself from the Freakinomics argument, by implying that is their argument not yours. Who can argue that every child born should be loved and cared for? The fact that some are not does not justify taking out those that 'might' not have such an upbringing. You do carefully write, so as to make your point, but put it on your reference, avoiding personal responsibility for your thoughts. 

My original point, which you do not seem to understand is that pharmacists are professionals, trained to exercise their clinical judgement just as MDs. If they choose to not provide a medication in line with their personal judgement, so be it. Your earlier point that MDs not trained in abortion, should not provide them, is common sense. I can tell you from personal experience, there are MDs trained in abortion procedures, that choose not to do them - however they are qualified. Would you force these MDs to still do abortions?

 As far as your family members surviving Auschwitz, good for them for making it through. Unfortunately, those humans who today are aborted, have NO opportunity to make it through, and can't say anything about it either. And lastly, I love your mindset that all my arguments are flawed, but yours are totally valid, especially your ducking of taking a stand on abortion. It reminds me of Sen Ted Kennedy, "I'm not in favor of abortion, but won't stop anyone else from having one". Think down through history at any number of issues and what would have happened if a few good people had taken that mindset. Pretty frightening.

 I am finished with this line on the blog, you and I will apparently never agree. I do try to be consistent in my approach to human life, I oppose abortion and I oppose the death penalty - human life is sacred in my view and allowing others to snuff it out, errs on the wrong side. Letting pharmacists exercise their personal ethics, seems only reasonable since MDs have that priviledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FPME,<br />
I only respond to your specious arguments. You, my friend are the one who tried to link the use of abortion to decrease &#8216;potential&#8217; children who might be raised in an unloving environment. Of course as usual, you try to distance yourself from the Freakinomics argument, by implying that is their argument not yours. Who can argue that every child born should be loved and cared for? The fact that some are not does not justify taking out those that &#8216;might&#8217; not have such an upbringing. You do carefully write, so as to make your point, but put it on your reference, avoiding personal responsibility for your thoughts. </p>
<p>My original point, which you do not seem to understand is that pharmacists are professionals, trained to exercise their clinical judgement just as MDs. If they choose to not provide a medication in line with their personal judgement, so be it. Your earlier point that MDs not trained in abortion, should not provide them, is common sense. I can tell you from personal experience, there are MDs trained in abortion procedures, that choose not to do them - however they are qualified. Would you force these MDs to still do abortions?</p>
<p> As far as your family members surviving Auschwitz, good for them for making it through. Unfortunately, those humans who today are aborted, have NO opportunity to make it through, and can&#8217;t say anything about it either. And lastly, I love your mindset that all my arguments are flawed, but yours are totally valid, especially your ducking of taking a stand on abortion. It reminds me of Sen Ted Kennedy, &#8220;I&#8217;m not in favor of abortion, but won&#8217;t stop anyone else from having one&#8221;. Think down through history at any number of issues and what would have happened if a few good people had taken that mindset. Pretty frightening.</p>
<p> I am finished with this line on the blog, you and I will apparently never agree. I do try to be consistent in my approach to human life, I oppose abortion and I oppose the death penalty - human life is sacred in my view and allowing others to snuff it out, errs on the wrong side. Letting pharmacists exercise their personal ethics, seems only reasonable since MDs have that priviledge.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Former pharma Marketing Exec</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-349803</link>
		<dc:creator>Former pharma Marketing Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-349803</guid>
		<description>Doc,

I am merely stating what is out there.  Nice attempt at yet another "straw man" argument.  I never said in any of my posts that we should prevent anyone from having babies - unless they wish to not have them themselves.

My point is that children should be brought into this world who are going to be loved and cared for and nurtured.  If a woman decides that she cannot provide for her child in that manner and wants to access Plan B, which the law says she can have access too then the actions of a few individuals should not prevent her from accessing what she legally has the right to.

Since family members of mine have survived Auschwitz, I would strongly caution you to not even think of comparing me to Hitler.

I haven't discredited you in any way, although I find it interesting that you think I have.

Read what I write carefully or do not comment.

Pharmacists are there to serve the public and must be able to put aside their religious beliefs.  That was and remains my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc,</p>
<p>I am merely stating what is out there.  Nice attempt at yet another &#8220;straw man&#8221; argument.  I never said in any of my posts that we should prevent anyone from having babies - unless they wish to not have them themselves.</p>
<p>My point is that children should be brought into this world who are going to be loved and cared for and nurtured.  If a woman decides that she cannot provide for her child in that manner and wants to access Plan B, which the law says she can have access too then the actions of a few individuals should not prevent her from accessing what she legally has the right to.</p>
<p>Since family members of mine have survived Auschwitz, I would strongly caution you to not even think of comparing me to Hitler.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t discredited you in any way, although I find it interesting that you think I have.</p>
<p>Read what I write carefully or do not comment.</p>
<p>Pharmacists are there to serve the public and must be able to put aside their religious beliefs.  That was and remains my point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-349715</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-349715</guid>
		<description>FPME,
Nice outlook, Margaret Sanger, who established Planned Parenthood, felt like you, keep the poor, often black population, from 'breeding' and solve mankind's problems. Adolph felt the same way for Germany about the Jews. I find your outlook very disturbing. I consider your discrediting of me a badge of honor, if you think the way your posts allude, I want nothing to do with your type of thinking. Basing your arguments on Freakonomics? Pitiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FPME,<br />
Nice outlook, Margaret Sanger, who established Planned Parenthood, felt like you, keep the poor, often black population, from &#8216;breeding&#8217; and solve mankind&#8217;s problems. Adolph felt the same way for Germany about the Jews. I find your outlook very disturbing. I consider your discrediting of me a badge of honor, if you think the way your posts allude, I want nothing to do with your type of thinking. Basing your arguments on Freakonomics? Pitiful.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Former pharma Marketing Exec</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-348185</link>
		<dc:creator>Former pharma Marketing Exec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-348185</guid>
		<description>Doc - Good imagination.  Thanks for sharing.  Lets stir up some more controversy.  You should read the book Freakanomics, of course I didn't right it.  The author says that the real reason for the decline in crime rates is the advent and acceptance of birth control.  Un-wed poor mothers did not have the children which would have been invariably raised in poor ghetto neighborhoods and did not resort to crime.  But, there are wonderful children who grow up to be amazing leaders and great thinkers and scientists, but you will agree that the odds are stacked against them.  It has to do with on the going repression of women - keep them pregnant and poor....

Nathan - ditto.

Both of you have now been completely discredited as being able to offer any realistic objective advice on anything.

JACK 2 - I wish I could take the blame for being "stupid" but this is the very argument that the fundamentalists in this country are using against the stem cell debate.  Jack 2, I have way more credentials they you will ever dream of having.  So, your opinion of me means nothing, you have credibility.  

As I said earlier,women everywhere should find out who these pharmacists are and boycott their pharmacies...

Nathan, Jack 2 and Doc thanks for sharing, I have learned lots, your bias and lack of education on this subject are glaring warnings to anyone who choses to read any comments you may make in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc - Good imagination.  Thanks for sharing.  Lets stir up some more controversy.  You should read the book Freakanomics, of course I didn&#8217;t right it.  The author says that the real reason for the decline in crime rates is the advent and acceptance of birth control.  Un-wed poor mothers did not have the children which would have been invariably raised in poor ghetto neighborhoods and did not resort to crime.  But, there are wonderful children who grow up to be amazing leaders and great thinkers and scientists, but you will agree that the odds are stacked against them.  It has to do with on the going repression of women - keep them pregnant and poor&#8230;.</p>
<p>Nathan - ditto.</p>
<p>Both of you have now been completely discredited as being able to offer any realistic objective advice on anything.</p>
<p>JACK 2 - I wish I could take the blame for being &#8220;stupid&#8221; but this is the very argument that the fundamentalists in this country are using against the stem cell debate.  Jack 2, I have way more credentials they you will ever dream of having.  So, your opinion of me means nothing, you have credibility.  </p>
<p>As I said earlier,women everywhere should find out who these pharmacists are and boycott their pharmacies&#8230;</p>
<p>Nathan, Jack 2 and Doc thanks for sharing, I have learned lots, your bias and lack of education on this subject are glaring warnings to anyone who choses to read any comments you may make in the future.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jack2</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-345406</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 00:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-345406</guid>
		<description>I tried to stay out of this one, and apologize that I didn't read all the posts to this point...

QUOTE FRME: If you look into this matter then condoms and birth control are unethical because they prevent the logical progression of egg and sperm to form a life. 

I'd say this takes the cake in a long line of very stupid attempts at extrapolation (and comments in general) from you but it's just so hard to choose.  You, sir, are dumb; your examples here and throughout this board are hypocritical; your ability to somehow have become an "executive" of anything is baffling; you're understanding of healthcare is repeatedly limited; you're knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry factually inaccurate; you're analogies ridiculous; and I find your writing style unusual at best - but more often it reminds me of my own writing style in 5th grade.



Disclaimer: I offered my own opinion on this issue the last time it came up, and I did not change my mind since then (Although I support pro-choice, I also support a pharmacists right to refuse to participate in another person's choice).  I recognize the issue is controversial and morally based, so either side can present a theoretically valid opinion.  I don't mean to belittle the posts of everyone here who disagrees with me.  

On the 14th day I rested -Jack2 out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to stay out of this one, and apologize that I didn&#8217;t read all the posts to this point&#8230;</p>
<p>QUOTE FRME: If you look into this matter then condoms and birth control are unethical because they prevent the logical progression of egg and sperm to form a life. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say this takes the cake in a long line of very stupid attempts at extrapolation (and comments in general) from you but it&#8217;s just so hard to choose.  You, sir, are dumb; your examples here and throughout this board are hypocritical; your ability to somehow have become an &#8220;executive&#8221; of anything is baffling; you&#8217;re understanding of healthcare is repeatedly limited; you&#8217;re knowledge of the pharmaceutical industry factually inaccurate; you&#8217;re analogies ridiculous; and I find your writing style unusual at best - but more often it reminds me of my own writing style in 5th grade.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I offered my own opinion on this issue the last time it came up, and I did not change my mind since then (Although I support pro-choice, I also support a pharmacists right to refuse to participate in another person&#8217;s choice).  I recognize the issue is controversial and morally based, so either side can present a theoretically valid opinion.  I don&#8217;t mean to belittle the posts of everyone here who disagrees with me.  </p>
<p>On the 14th day I rested -Jack2 out</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CMC guy</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-345096</link>
		<dc:creator>CMC guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 23:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-345096</guid>
		<description>FPME you are the one seemingly getting off on tangents.  See Doc's statements as Pharmacist are professional and are not Public servants (unless perhaps they are government employees).  You cite WA law but do not point out the section that (I would argue) includes Pharmacist right to Refuse to Perform. You try to argue this is male chauvinism and Church vs State (granted article does cite regelious grounds) igoring that some women believe differently and Separation Doctrine is supposed to work both ways.  Even is scientists may have decided "14 days" however it appears based on selection criteria to thwart the fertizaltion/conception view.  Nathan did bring up ethics however think he was attempting to illustrate how if people in phrama had/do stand up against wrongs its reputation would not be so soiled.

Finally although in reading aware you are far from atypical for Marketing type the "What appears arbitrary to you is anything that doesn’t suit what you think it should be" sounds more like marketing attitude and practices and raises questions on your objectivity when you accuse someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FPME you are the one seemingly getting off on tangents.  See Doc&#8217;s statements as Pharmacist are professional and are not Public servants (unless perhaps they are government employees).  You cite WA law but do not point out the section that (I would argue) includes Pharmacist right to Refuse to Perform. You try to argue this is male chauvinism and Church vs State (granted article does cite regelious grounds) igoring that some women believe differently and Separation Doctrine is supposed to work both ways.  Even is scientists may have decided &#8220;14 days&#8221; however it appears based on selection criteria to thwart the fertizaltion/conception view.  Nathan did bring up ethics however think he was attempting to illustrate how if people in phrama had/do stand up against wrongs its reputation would not be so soiled.</p>
<p>Finally although in reading aware you are far from atypical for Marketing type the &#8220;What appears arbitrary to you is anything that doesn’t suit what you think it should be&#8221; sounds more like marketing attitude and practices and raises questions on your objectivity when you accuse someone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/05/washington-pharmacists-dont-have-to-sell-plan-b/#comment-344964</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 22:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=13455#comment-344964</guid>
		<description>FPME,
"Imagine this scenario: A women, who by the way had to have sex with a man in order to be in this situation, realizes that maybe the condom broke or whatever." They decide to NOT have an abortion and the child grows up in 25 years, discovers the genetic basis for 50% of all cancers and provides the solution to this devistating health issue. As long as we are imagining!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FPME,<br />
&#8220;Imagine this scenario: A women, who by the way had to have sex with a man in order to be in this situation, realizes that maybe the condom broke or whatever.&#8221; They decide to NOT have an abortion and the child grows up in 25 years, discovers the genetic basis for 50% of all cancers and provides the solution to this devistating health issue. As long as we are imagining!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
