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	<title>Comments on: Doctor Groups Hold Slugfest Over ADHD Drugs</title>
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	<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/</link>
	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368577</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368577</guid>
		<description>M Helm MD,

You may contact me privately,.. lvansyckel61@yahoo.com

I keep all conversations confidential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M Helm MD,</p>
<p>You may contact me privately,.. <a href="mailto:lvansyckel61@yahoo.com">lvansyckel61@yahoo.com</a></p>
<p>I keep all conversations confidential.</p>
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		<title>By: M Helm, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368568</link>
		<dc:creator>M Helm, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368568</guid>
		<description>Lisa Van S

How should I know?  You probably don't have enough information to search for me based on just a last name.  I'm not the only Dr. Helm in the country, and I'm not really looking to have my address published on Pharmalot.  I'm sure you can understand that.  However, I am as I say, a pediatrician, an AAP member, and an evidence-based pharmacy benefit program medical director.  I also have an earlier graduate degree in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa Van S</p>
<p>How should I know?  You probably don&#8217;t have enough information to search for me based on just a last name.  I&#8217;m not the only Dr. Helm in the country, and I&#8217;m not really looking to have my address published on Pharmalot.  I&#8217;m sure you can understand that.  However, I am as I say, a pediatrician, an AAP member, and an evidence-based pharmacy benefit program medical director.  I also have an earlier graduate degree in business.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368516</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368516</guid>
		<description>H Helm MD

Why is it that I cant find you listed as a Pediatrician,.. or a member of the AAP?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H Helm MD</p>
<p>Why is it that I cant find you listed as a Pediatrician,.. or a member of the AAP?</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368413</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368413</guid>
		<description>H Helm MD

FDA and Industry negotiated the language on Abilify and Seroquel. I am assuming the confusion in the language has to do with sales!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H Helm MD</p>
<p>FDA and Industry negotiated the language on Abilify and Seroquel. I am assuming the confusion in the language has to do with sales!</p>
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		<title>By: M Helm, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368362</link>
		<dc:creator>M Helm, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368362</guid>
		<description>Lisa Van S. - The black box warnings on the atypicals relate to elderly patients with dementia.  Only recently did Abilify and Risperdal get approval for "bipolar" and schizophrenia in adolescent.  Zyprexa applied for these indications, but final approval hasn't been granted.  The current black box warning on Abilfy which does mention children reads as follows:

"Children, adolescents, and young adults taking antidepressants for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders are at increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior. (5.2)"

Problem is, Abilify is not an antidepressant. So how does this relate to the risks of a child receiving Abilify?

I haven't the time to review and provide a critique of all the testimony.  I'm supportive of full informed consent for all psyciatric/behavioral medications in children - wether or not there is a black box warning.  I'm also supportive of behavioral and cognitive behavioral interventions for all patients with those conditions.  MTA, TADS, TORDIA and a number of other studies - not to mention the professional society treatment guidelines validate that the non-medication treatments improve outcomes (and may be sufficient on their own).

As a society, we are far to eager for a "quick fix."  The question of "isn't there a pill for this?" is too often the reason for a medical visit.  Problem is all pills carry risks.  

For the MD/DO/NP/PA to understand the risks and benefits, but not communicate them seems a poor way to establish a "therapeutic alliance."  Worse still, in my current job, it is fairly clear that a large number of prescribers really don't understand the risks (or mechanisms of action, etc) of many of the medications they prescribe (or want to, but can't due to payor decisions).  This leads to some bad practice behaviors - examples of which are in the NJ Leg. testimony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa Van S. - The black box warnings on the atypicals relate to elderly patients with dementia.  Only recently did Abilify and Risperdal get approval for &#8220;bipolar&#8221; and schizophrenia in adolescent.  Zyprexa applied for these indications, but final approval hasn&#8217;t been granted.  The current black box warning on Abilfy which does mention children reads as follows:</p>
<p>&#8220;Children, adolescents, and young adults taking antidepressants for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders are at increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior. (5.2)&#8221;</p>
<p>Problem is, Abilify is not an antidepressant. So how does this relate to the risks of a child receiving Abilify?</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t the time to review and provide a critique of all the testimony.  I&#8217;m supportive of full informed consent for all psyciatric/behavioral medications in children - wether or not there is a black box warning.  I&#8217;m also supportive of behavioral and cognitive behavioral interventions for all patients with those conditions.  MTA, TADS, TORDIA and a number of other studies - not to mention the professional society treatment guidelines validate that the non-medication treatments improve outcomes (and may be sufficient on their own).</p>
<p>As a society, we are far to eager for a &#8220;quick fix.&#8221;  The question of &#8220;isn&#8217;t there a pill for this?&#8221; is too often the reason for a medical visit.  Problem is all pills carry risks.  </p>
<p>For the MD/DO/NP/PA to understand the risks and benefits, but not communicate them seems a poor way to establish a &#8220;therapeutic alliance.&#8221;  Worse still, in my current job, it is fairly clear that a large number of prescribers really don&#8217;t understand the risks (or mechanisms of action, etc) of many of the medications they prescribe (or want to, but can&#8217;t due to payor decisions).  This leads to some bad practice behaviors - examples of which are in the NJ Leg. testimony.</p>
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		<title>By: ATG</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368353</link>
		<dc:creator>ATG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368353</guid>
		<description>Actually, there is no credible substantiation that stimulants (or so-called "nonstimulant" ADHD drugs) improve academic performance. Since children with an LD, for which the diagnosis of ADHD is eligible, can take tests untimed and in many circumstances with the help of an aid, this tends to skew  reports on academic performance. And as far as improvements in nonacademic performance, there's a few tilts there as well. Just the idea alone that a child is on stimulants can often work as a placebo for teachers and therapists, causing more positive reviews of the child's behavior regardless of whether the child is on actually taking the drugs. 

Furthermore, according to the unheralded details of the MTA, even nonacademic behavioral improvements aren't long lived and children in the non-drug groups (cb therapy) fared better over time as the drug group lost most or all their initial seeming gains.  

And I don't think anyone should believe the reports that cardiac deaths among children on stimulants are lower than in the general population any more than they should believe that cardiac deaths among recreational methamphetamine users are lower than in the general population. The least bit of digging through whichever epidemiological studies supposedly support this would no doubt come up with some major numbers-massaging. But I'm not up to it tonight. Had too much coffee and   I've got an arrhythmia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, there is no credible substantiation that stimulants (or so-called &#8220;nonstimulant&#8221; ADHD drugs) improve academic performance. Since children with an LD, for which the diagnosis of ADHD is eligible, can take tests untimed and in many circumstances with the help of an aid, this tends to skew  reports on academic performance. And as far as improvements in nonacademic performance, there&#8217;s a few tilts there as well. Just the idea alone that a child is on stimulants can often work as a placebo for teachers and therapists, causing more positive reviews of the child&#8217;s behavior regardless of whether the child is on actually taking the drugs. </p>
<p>Furthermore, according to the unheralded details of the MTA, even nonacademic behavioral improvements aren&#8217;t long lived and children in the non-drug groups (cb therapy) fared better over time as the drug group lost most or all their initial seeming gains.  </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think anyone should believe the reports that cardiac deaths among children on stimulants are lower than in the general population any more than they should believe that cardiac deaths among recreational methamphetamine users are lower than in the general population. The least bit of digging through whichever epidemiological studies supposedly support this would no doubt come up with some major numbers-massaging. But I&#8217;m not up to it tonight. Had too much coffee and   I&#8217;ve got an arrhythmia.</p>
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		<title>By: Just A Thought</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368305</link>
		<dc:creator>Just A Thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368305</guid>
		<description>Amphetamines are a good enough cause to suggest cardiac testing in anyone. 
Call them whatever you like. I have seen one child's generic medication labeled 'amphetamine'. 
If yours is not speed, how closely related is it in chemical make-up?

I have doubts as to whether some parents would do anything that might suggest that the child should be taken off drugs. They have so much pressure from the schools, for one.
Is it true that schools get double the federal dollars for each disabled child? That ADHD is considered a disability under those federal guidelines?

If you can complain about the risk of kids being overweight and eating fatty foods, if you can suggest that they be treated for high cholesterol, then how can you not expect the safty net to protect them here?

Let's not be onesided. Drugs always. Anything that might debunk them, never.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amphetamines are a good enough cause to suggest cardiac testing in anyone.<br />
Call them whatever you like. I have seen one child&#8217;s generic medication labeled &#8216;amphetamine&#8217;.<br />
If yours is not speed, how closely related is it in chemical make-up?</p>
<p>I have doubts as to whether some parents would do anything that might suggest that the child should be taken off drugs. They have so much pressure from the schools, for one.<br />
Is it true that schools get double the federal dollars for each disabled child? That ADHD is considered a disability under those federal guidelines?</p>
<p>If you can complain about the risk of kids being overweight and eating fatty foods, if you can suggest that they be treated for high cholesterol, then how can you not expect the safty net to protect them here?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not be onesided. Drugs always. Anything that might debunk them, never.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368258</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368258</guid>
		<description>Laurie,

I believe Nancy is a Councilwoman somewhere in NJ. I tried to educate her on the Med Guides!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laurie,</p>
<p>I believe Nancy is a Councilwoman somewhere in NJ. I tried to educate her on the Med Guides!!</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368257</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368257</guid>
		<description>H Helm MD

"Parental Automany",... Thank God for that, it saved my child's life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H Helm MD</p>
<p>&#8220;Parental Automany&#8221;,&#8230; Thank God for that, it saved my child&#8217;s life.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Van S</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/07/doctor-groups-hold-slugfest-over-adhd-drugs/#comment-368256</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Van S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=14884#comment-368256</guid>
		<description>M Helm MD,

Abilify and Seroquel, as you know are antipsychotics. FDA has placed Black Box Warnings on these meds for increased risk of suicide/violence. May I suggest that you check your 2008 version of the PDR.

You stated that our Attorney was innacurate in his testimony, would you please point out the inaccuracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M Helm MD,</p>
<p>Abilify and Seroquel, as you know are antipsychotics. FDA has placed Black Box Warnings on these meds for increased risk of suicide/violence. May I suggest that you check your 2008 version of the PDR.</p>
<p>You stated that our Attorney was innacurate in his testimony, would you please point out the inaccuracy.</p>
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