<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8216;May Be A Seeding Study, But Let&#8217;s Not Call It That&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/</link>
	<description>News, Comment and Conversation</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: S Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370380</link>
		<dc:creator>S Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370380</guid>
		<description>One must not forget the words of the former President of Merck Research Labs on this issue:

In e-mail messages on April 7, 2001, to ... an executive vice president at Merck Research Laboratories, [President of Merck Research Labs] Dr. [Edward] Scolnick wrote that he was especially angry because the Advantage trial had no scientific purpose. In theory, Merck set up the trial to show that Vioxx caused fewer stomach problems than naproxen. But Merck had already demonstrated that with the Vigor trial, which tracked more than 8,000 patients for a year.
    ... [T]he reason we have resisted doing large marketing clinical studies is just this. It opens a lot of data to FDA that compromises the large clinically meaningful trials." Small marketing studies which are intellectually redundant are extremely dangerous," Scolnick wrote. 

If a pharma company does not listen to its head of R&#38;D, then who will it listen to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One must not forget the words of the former President of Merck Research Labs on this issue:</p>
<p>In e-mail messages on April 7, 2001, to &#8230; an executive vice president at Merck Research Laboratories, [President of Merck Research Labs] Dr. [Edward] Scolnick wrote that he was especially angry because the Advantage trial had no scientific purpose. In theory, Merck set up the trial to show that Vioxx caused fewer stomach problems than naproxen. But Merck had already demonstrated that with the Vigor trial, which tracked more than 8,000 patients for a year.<br />
    &#8230; [T]he reason we have resisted doing large marketing clinical studies is just this. It opens a lot of data to FDA that compromises the large clinically meaningful trials.&#8221; Small marketing studies which are intellectually redundant are extremely dangerous,&#8221; Scolnick wrote. </p>
<p>If a pharma company does not listen to its head of R&amp;D, then who will it listen to?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike M</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370379</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370379</guid>
		<description>I remember a small seeding trial in 1960, which was orchestrated by the Marketing department of a company called Merrell located in Cincinnati, Ohio. Sound familiar? The purpose of this "trial" was to sign up as many doctors as possible in order to sell them on their new drug, Kevadon (thalidomide). We all know how this ended (but hey, I am sure this "trial" was partially devised on scientific merit, so maybe we are just picking on poor Merrell). Yet, we still have people defending the disgusting practices of this industry, even though it is clear they perpetually place profits before patients, and continuously contaminate legitimate science with promotional stunts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a small seeding trial in 1960, which was orchestrated by the Marketing department of a company called Merrell located in Cincinnati, Ohio. Sound familiar? The purpose of this &#8220;trial&#8221; was to sign up as many doctors as possible in order to sell them on their new drug, Kevadon (thalidomide). We all know how this ended (but hey, I am sure this &#8220;trial&#8221; was partially devised on scientific merit, so maybe we are just picking on poor Merrell). Yet, we still have people defending the disgusting practices of this industry, even though it is clear they perpetually place profits before patients, and continuously contaminate legitimate science with promotional stunts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan A.</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370322</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370322</guid>
		<description>To complicate things further, Some if not many IRBs are for profit as well, just as the CROs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To complicate things further, Some if not many IRBs are for profit as well, just as the CROs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Salmon</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370315</link>
		<dc:creator>Salmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370315</guid>
		<description>At the time of this study Merck was divided into several different business divisions. Including Merck Research Labs, Merck Manufacturing, and Merck Marketing. I can't remember the names for each of them.

However the marketing division had it's own independent physicians who designed and conducted studies for the express purpose of marketing and these were not designed for any regulatory purpose.

Studies that have no scientific merit are not uncommon in the pharmaceutical industry. FDA generally won't object to unethical studies if an institutional review board signs off on it and IRBs usually won't make waves because once you do you can kiss future studies and $ goodbye. If an IRB has a problem they might ask if it's been reviewed  by FDA but since most studies that are submitted aren't reviewed and especially not marketing studies it's a big farce.

Salmon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the time of this study Merck was divided into several different business divisions. Including Merck Research Labs, Merck Manufacturing, and Merck Marketing. I can&#8217;t remember the names for each of them.</p>
<p>However the marketing division had it&#8217;s own independent physicians who designed and conducted studies for the express purpose of marketing and these were not designed for any regulatory purpose.</p>
<p>Studies that have no scientific merit are not uncommon in the pharmaceutical industry. FDA generally won&#8217;t object to unethical studies if an institutional review board signs off on it and IRBs usually won&#8217;t make waves because once you do you can kiss future studies and $ goodbye. If an IRB has a problem they might ask if it&#8217;s been reviewed  by FDA but since most studies that are submitted aren&#8217;t reviewed and especially not marketing studies it&#8217;s a big farce.</p>
<p>Salmon</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: atlex</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370306</link>
		<dc:creator>atlex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370306</guid>
		<description>Just because a study was done for marketing purposes, doesn't mean it wasn't done for legitimate medical purposes, as well.  I don't work in Merck marketing so I haven't seen all of the information.  Thus, for all I know this study was designed, implemented and published by Merck's marketers.  If so, there is definitely a problem.  However, I seriously doubt that there was NO scientific rationale for the study. Moreover, while the "seeding" aspect of the study is disturbing, has anyone demonstrated that good study practices were not followed?  

In my experience, marketers often try to push the envelope on studies; their opinions should be counterbalanced by their peers from Medical and Legal/Regulatory.  If everything works, robust studies get conducted that meet medical gaps and marketing needs.  By only looking at the emails from marketers, I feel as though I am only seeing part of the story.

One more note...this study was conducted in the late 1990s.  In most major pharma companies, a "seeding" study would be highly unlikely to pass internal scrutiny today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because a study was done for marketing purposes, doesn&#8217;t mean it wasn&#8217;t done for legitimate medical purposes, as well.  I don&#8217;t work in Merck marketing so I haven&#8217;t seen all of the information.  Thus, for all I know this study was designed, implemented and published by Merck&#8217;s marketers.  If so, there is definitely a problem.  However, I seriously doubt that there was NO scientific rationale for the study. Moreover, while the &#8220;seeding&#8221; aspect of the study is disturbing, has anyone demonstrated that good study practices were not followed?  </p>
<p>In my experience, marketers often try to push the envelope on studies; their opinions should be counterbalanced by their peers from Medical and Legal/Regulatory.  If everything works, robust studies get conducted that meet medical gaps and marketing needs.  By only looking at the emails from marketers, I feel as though I am only seeing part of the story.</p>
<p>One more note&#8230;this study was conducted in the late 1990s.  In most major pharma companies, a &#8220;seeding&#8221; study would be highly unlikely to pass internal scrutiny today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan A.</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370305</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370305</guid>
		<description>May be a pointless study with no scientific value regarding the acquisiton of additional knowledge, but let's not call it that, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May be a pointless study with no scientific value regarding the acquisiton of additional knowledge, but let&#8217;s not call it that, either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doug Bremner</title>
		<link>http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/08/it-may-be-a-seeding-study-but-lets-not-call-it-that/#comment-370299</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Bremner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15179#comment-370299</guid>
		<description>It clearly is unethical to conduct 'studies' when there is no benefit to society at large of the information obtained. Anyone who has sat on an IRB knows this. When the public learns that they were participating in studies whose purpose was to get physicians to prescribe their drugs they aren't going to want to participate in real research, which will hurt those of us who do this for a living. ADVANTAGE was clearly performed for marketing purposes, whatever acronym you want to use. Why else would they have 600 'investigators', each of whom would have recruited about 5 patients? It doesn't make any sense. How can you coordinate 600 sites and get them all to do things the same way? A Merck exec was even quoted as complaining to the marketing people that they had done a study that exposed them to the risk of finding out a bad side effect, when the study wasn't needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It clearly is unethical to conduct &#8217;studies&#8217; when there is no benefit to society at large of the information obtained. Anyone who has sat on an IRB knows this. When the public learns that they were participating in studies whose purpose was to get physicians to prescribe their drugs they aren&#8217;t going to want to participate in real research, which will hurt those of us who do this for a living. ADVANTAGE was clearly performed for marketing purposes, whatever acronym you want to use. Why else would they have 600 &#8216;investigators&#8217;, each of whom would have recruited about 5 patients? It doesn&#8217;t make any sense. How can you coordinate 600 sites and get them all to do things the same way? A Merck exec was even quoted as complaining to the marketing people that they had done a study that exposed them to the risk of finding out a bad side effect, when the study wasn&#8217;t needed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.158 seconds -->

