Antipsychotics & Kids: States Are Cracking Down
95 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // September 10th, 2008 // 12:03 pm
Over the past few years, atypical antipsychotics have been eating up a growing portion of state Medicaid budgets, from 4.5 percent in Arizona to 13.3 percent in Massachusetts. Several states, in fact, have sued one or more drugmakers for allegedly withholding side effect info or improperly promoting their meds, prompting Medicaid overpayments. However, the fastest growth is prescribing for children, sometimes for uses not approved by the FDA, such as ADHD. Jeffery Thompson, the chief medical officer of Washington state’s Medicaid program, is heading a consortion of 15 state Medical medical directors, who plan to issue a report early next year that examines prescribing trends, dosing, and demographics, among other things. We spoke about the issue…
Pharmalot: So why are you looking into this? Why is this an issue?
Thompson: The number one drug class in expenditures is atypical anti-pyschotics in almost every state. And the fastest-growing utilization is for both on and off label use in children. And as part of our jobs, we have a special relationship with foster care children, for instance, which means we should pay particular attention as prescribers use these to treat the children We also know there is wide variation within states and across states among utilization in kids, and we believe we should understand why that is.
Pharmalot: What, specifically, is your group examining?
Thompson: There’s a rapidly evolving constellation of diagnoses these drugs are being used for that are constantly evolving, with and without evidence or FDA labeling. And when there’s both limited evidence and labeling, it’s something we need to look at. For example, at what age can you diagnose somebody with bipolar disorder? Is it three years old? Seven years old? 12 years old? 18? There’s some evidence that it’s happening at all of those ages. But when is it appropriate to add an antipsychotic in addtion to a stimulant for treating ADHD in a child? And with off-label use, should there be an upper limit of dose by certain ages? Another question is when is it appropriate, or not safe, to combine multiple drugs when treating a child? We have some children who are on one, two, three or four at any one time. We see children being prescribed three to five times the FDA-approved adult dosages. So we’re looking at whether the trend indicates what I refer to as too young, too much or too many.
Pharmalot: How did the effort get started? And why aren’t more states involved?
Thompson: Last june, Washington state Medicaid convened a meeting of Medicaid medical directors, which is a nationwide group, to discuss integration of medical and mental health. And I posed a project where we would all look at utilization of kids getting antipsychotics. So we’re now actively pulling data. There directors representing.25 to 30 states at last year’s meeting and 42 states are in the network. Some states are examining data on their own, but all can share the results.
Pharmalot: Beyond compiling numbers, what do you hope to accomplish?
Thompson: We want to define our best practices and improve antipsychotic prescrbiing to children. In Texas, they’re working with their psychiatric community on algorithms, for instance. In many states, Eli Lilly works with state programs to provide report cards. Other states have specific guidelines. But we need to share what is being done in order to develop what can be considered a best practice, and then look at any additional steps, such as further clarification of state programs or gathering other data from state databases based on our findings. And we eventually hope to publish a paper.
Pharmalot: With so many states suing these drugmakers and the point made about budget dollars being spent, it sounds like this just as much about saving money, yes?
Thompson: I would say this project is not designed to save money. It’s designed to improve the health and safety of our children. If you look at our data dictionary, cost has a deminimus amount of activity in this project. It’s actually one very small component of the data we’re looking at. Most data we’re pulling relates to safety. Again, our primary hope is to improve health and safety of prescribing the drugs to children and reduce unneeded variation in care.
Pharmalot: To what extent is the pharmaceutical industry involved?
Thompson: Well, I mentioned earlier that some states have arrangements with Lilly to monitor prescribing trends. But the effort is independent of the industry. The Agency for Health Care Research and Quality is underwriting the project. We have the sanction and approval of state medicaid directors and state mental health directors, and these groups are actually doing the work, along with researchers at Rutgers University. I know my own state, the state of Washington, has invited pharmaceutical companies to meet with our mental health network group at all times to ensure there is appropriate use of medications. Apart from that, any findings from the study will be shared with the industry.
Dan A.
It’s about time.
Inge Sengelmann
It is high time that the states begin to review Medicaid practices concerning prescriptions of antipsychotic drugs to children. It did not make any common sense that states would continue to allow public funding — to the tunes of billions each year — to pay for the same drugs that they are successfully suing pharmaceutical companies for. If the companies are being sued for hiding risks associated with these drugs, and for engaging in illegal marketing practices that promote off-label prescribing, how can the states, in good conscience, allow the same drugs to be prescribed to children?
#30 Sub Cole Slaw
Which 15 states are involved?
That would be interesting to know.
Jim Moore
I bet the fifteen states turn out to be the same states that implemented TMAP (Texas Medication Algorithm Project) which was created by and funded by drug company researchers and that only recommended the drugs that were being sold by the same drug companies. They also recommended shock therapy as a last resort. Compare that to a complete physical to look for toxins, infections, thyroid troubles, rare diseases, sleep disorders etc etc. I smell fraud.
Jennifer
Now if the feds would just figure out that Child Protective Services is doing the same thing. They have specific physicians that they use that label kids with mental disorders so that they can increase the federal funding stream by labeling them as special needs children. This definitely is a good start, I hope to see more of this. If we can wipe out the fraud within state governments, maybe we can save social security. Probably not, just a thought.
Lee
Texas’s guidelines on antipsychotics for kids have probably done more to contribute to the drugging of children in our state than any other factor. It’s shameful that rather than confronting the issue, our state continues to defend and expand psychiatric drugging. As far as I can tell, we lead the nation in the antipsychotic drugging of kids.
Children just shouldn’t be getting these drugs. So, it doesn’t really matter how much lipstick the psychiatrists and State Medicaid Directors put on this pig, it’s still a pig and will remain so until our states muster up the courage to change the system.
Lee
Ed Silverman
Dear Sub Cole Slaw,
I’ve asked Thompson which states have joined the consortium and this is what came back:
“At this time, I have 14 states that have attended the briefing calls and said yes, but some may drop out and some may come in depending on their ability to pull data. So, at this time AK and WA are the only states that have made the names available to the public.”
As I learn more, I will pass it along.
ed
David Aden
I’m very happy to hear about this effort because the psychiatric drugging of children is a national scandal and tragedy.
However, it just does not make sense to have Lilly anywhere near anything having to do with this — in fact Big Pharma should have no involvement in this whatsoever. That extends to any “experts” who are doing the evaluations — big pharma ties should disqualify them.
Otherwise, it is very much a case of the wolf being asked for input on safe practices in the chicken coop. They are just never going to admit that these drugs are dangerous and shouldn’t be used.
Supremacy Claus
Thompson and his state cohorts are within reach of Federal law, and professional oversight bodies, anytime, after the first steps he takes to attack the clinical care of Medicaid patients.
The greater the expenditures, the greater the evidence validating them as standards of due care. The practice is growing because it works well. Any doctor not doing the same is in a minority of doctors, practicing outside the standard of due care, by depriving Medicaid patients of effective treatment.
Thompson will face legal, personal accountability for any anti-scientific, biased, racist attacks on clinical care.
#30 Sub Cole Slaw
Thank you Mr. Silverman,
He probably meant AR instead of AK.
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/national/235834/
“Arkansas is one of many states studying how the drugs are prescribed to children and teenagers and is one of about 15 states in a consortium formed to compile data and analyze prescribing trends nationwide.”
I hope TN is included in this consortium. They may be the biggest offenders in the U.S. from my experience.
Barbara Mah
How did the practice of drugging our children become so accepted?? It floors me to realize that this huge change has taken place in maybe 20 years!!
The wisdom of generations has become discarded, to the great detriment of the now-growing-up generation, who learn that normal emotions are not OK, and can be “fixed” by taking a pill.
In my opinion, parenting is becoming a lost art, with Big Pharma taking over the job.
Salmon
Supremacy claus’s arguments are essentially the same as everybody else is doing it therefore it must be right.
The scientific data directly contradicts supremacy claus. In fact the entire basis for the AG’s actions are that the treatments are not effective or has not been demonstrated to be effective.
Supremacy claus’s arguments are a lot like I would expect coming from Peter Pitts and R Goldberg at the Center for Medicine in the Public Interest which is essentially an industry front group. In fact they’ve had to pull stuff off of their website as according to the Government Accountability Project it was slanderous. That’s not to imply that anything in the Supremacy Claus’s pharmalot comments is slanderous, only misleading and untruthful.
Salmon
laurie
“Any doctor not doing the same is in a minority of doctors, practicing outside the standard of due care, by depriving Medicaid patients of effective treatment. ”
Wow….this is delusional!! SC, where are the facts that back up your claims? Do you really believe that giving children unapproved drugs is a “standard of due care”?
Wow… just wow.
And this line of thinking is EXACTLY why this investigation needs to go forth.
Perry
The greater the state expenditures on atypical antipsychotics for chilren, the more violations are occuring against federal Medicaid law.
Federal authorities should swoop down on the most egregious states and make examples out of them. Then the millions upon millions won’t be wasted on unscientific uses such as ADHD.
Medicaid has been reimbursing unethical witch doctors for uses other than “medically accepted indications.” That’s a no no.
It needs to stop.
Any crack computer programmer could come up with a method to kick out off-label, off-Medicaid-okay by age, sex, indication, etc. Easy.
Nathan
Great — now the federal government is not only going to approve drugs, it also is going to tell doctors when they can and can’t prescribe them. Just what we need. Before you know it, Medicaid will ban reimbursement for off-label prescriptions altogether. Then people will cry fowl when Medicaid patients suddenly can’t receive the off-label cancer treatments that save the lives of so many people.
If you want to stop off-label prescriptions, you need to go after the prescribers — not the payers. The payers have no interest in saving the lives of patients, only in saving precious dollars.
#30 Sub Cole Slaw
The federal government already has statutes on the books for the proper Medicaid reimbursement of drugs.
“Doctors” using witchcraft as their primary diagnosing tool should have authorities looking over their shoulders and deny their requests where appropriate.
Atypical Antipsychotic drugs being prescribed for ADHD is witchcraft. No Science.
Tax payers shouldn’t have to pay for such sorcery.
Lisa Van S
Nathan
Individuals needing prescriptions for cancer treatments arent getting them,..But yet we have plenty of resources to pay for antipsychotics for infants and toddlers who will receive no benefit.
Supremacy Claus
Let’s say doctors are corrupt, the FDA is asleep, drug companies fail to discourage off label prescribing. Let’s say, they all want to hurt children to make money. All are pure evil.
What about the parents and the teachers of these kids? The pressure after a short time is to stop taking medication, because it is too much trouble. The biggest problem in clinical care is non-compliance, not over-medication. If everyone gets tired of taking meds, why do parents continue to give these children such troublesome medication, sometimes for years?
It is because every time these medications are skipped by accident or on purpose, hell revisits the home, the class, the church, the playground, the mall, the bus, the zoo, or wherever these children go. Skip a dose, pay a price in destruction, disruption, self-mutilation, and no other child in the class is learning anymore.
The left wing, biased ideologues here have to explain the conduct of the parents and of the teachers. They are not getting paid off with sandwiches to destroy the brains of children.
As to the reasoning behind the popularity of a practice as setting the standard of due care? That is legal reasoning, not my reasoning. Those prescription counts are the most reliable way to assess what doctors find effective, and keep doing.
Without going into technical detail, it is the published studies that are garbage science. And guidelines and textbooks compiling their results use garbage methodology to compile garbage science. The prescription counts are votes by patients and parents, the most reliable way to assess clinical effectiveness.
Lisa Van S
Supremacy,
Teachers receive teaching certificates, not medical degrees.
Steven J.
In 2005 the House Energy and Commerce Committee Chair, Joe Barton (R-Texas) issued a statement about the current conditions of Medicaid throughout the nation. He said, “We have reached a point where there just are not enough taxes or taxpayer money to keep Medicaid going,” adding, “Medicaid eventually will bankrupt every state in the nation.”
With the rising Medicaid expenses to state budgets, states are scrambling to rein in costs and meet budgetary constraints. In Ohio one Representative expressed concerns for these issues and states: “Ohio’s Medicaid spending on drugs for mental health, needs a Task Force and an Oversight Commission to investigate the spike in Medicaid spending on antipsychotic drugs.”
The drug algorithims have turned out to be an expensive hoax pushed and paid for the pharmaceutical companies and an extremely expensive lesson for any state that tried it. In 2005, the Mental Health Director of Ohio had this to say about OMAP (the name of their drug algorithim project): “…frankly it didn’t work very well for us and we’ve discontinued it… Increasingly it’s clear that the scientists don’t have pretty good information to give the doctors about which works best……So we thought, and frankly I thought at one point in time that this kind of algorithm where you’d give the docs [doctors], “try this first, try this second”, would be a good idea but it just hasn’t worked that well.”
Medicaid should mean health coverage for the people who need it but with the current payouts the coffers will soon run dry. Every state should get on this band wagon and conduct their investigation into why the outrageous - and in the case of children, illegal - spending on these drugs is being allowed.
Mary
Supremacy - Thank you! You made me smile! :O) You brought back memories of when I was small and my mother said, “What if all the other kids wanted to jump off Niagara Falls! Just because they were jumping would you jump too?”
Supremacy Claus
Steven J.: “the outrageous - and in the case of children, illegal - spending on these drugs is being allowed.”
What is the law broken by prescribing anti-psychotics to children?
Salmon
Supremacy.
Parents and teachers can get less disruptive kids by doping them up with alcohol, marijuana, or even cyanide so they’re too tired to behave in a manner that parents or teachers don’t want to deal with. That does not mean that those drugs are treating an underlying illness.
These are called nonspecific effects. Using sales or usage to justify nonspecific effects is absurd.
Your pseudonym and posts suggests you believe in the supremacy of FDA over state AGs and even Congress’s oversight function of the FDA.
Since we’re talking about psych drugs I dare you to show me even one example in recent history (lets say the past 20 years) of a psych drug where FDA promotes the use of nonspecific effects as a measure of whether the drug works or not.
Salmon
Supremacy Claus
Salmon: All treatment for all chronic disease is non-specific. So giving insulin does not regenerate the ability of the pancreas to make insulin. It lowers the blood sugar as it would in anyone who got insulin.
You want brain repair. Come back in 50 years.
I sure do believe in the Constitution and its Supremacy Clause. Any debate was settled by the blood of 600,000 soldiers in the Civil War. No one serious is proposing it be reopened. The Founders wrote that Clause after their experiences with the Articles of Confederation. This nation cannot exist without it. The states may try to secede if they do not like belonging to the US.
The FDA has approved two medication for use in child aggression without psychosis. Mellaril and Haldol. They are cheap but nasty. If docs used these on dark skinned kids, there would be no pretextual debate funded and promoted by insurance companies. This is not just sincere hippies vs drug companies. This is huge insurance companies seeking to increase profits by forcing dark skinned kids to get the treatments of 30 years ago. They have $trils in reserves. They eradicated half the hospitals of the nation. Now they are coming after kids. We are going to take a stand within the law. This blog is a Trojan Horse for these enemies of clinical care. It is biased, unfair, and awful.
FDA has also approved Risperdal for the agitation in autism. But that agitation is the same as that found in a genius kid with mental illness.
The non-specificity of the medication is matched by the non-specificity of the target symptom. There may be 1000 biological causes of child aggression. Aggression itself is non-specific, like the symptom of fever or pain. The diagnoses themselves are 19th Century and quite tenuous if not junk.
Drug response is as valid as any theory of the underlying condition. You cannot find me a single reproducible genetic marker or social marker or any other marker of the underlying cause of a mental illness. All are non-specific.
Jack2
Lisa
That’s really your opinion. So you support off-label reimbursement when it’s for drugs/indications you agree with and you oppose it for drugs/indications you don’t agree with.
If you were a physician you would be free to make these decisions on an individual basis.
But when it comes to laws, should you be the final arbiter of CMS, the FDA, and the AMA all together?
Lisa Van S
Jack2
Their are medical tests ie blood and urine, MRI and Brain Spectroscopy, biopsies to determine whether or not an individual has cancer, diabetes, hypothyroidism, M.S., Muscular Dystrophy, Lyme Disease, Cat Scratch Disease(Bartonella).
What Medical tests are available to determine whether or not an infant or toddler suffers from a manic depressive disorder, depression psychosis, ADD, ADHD.
Provide me with the medical evidence to support the off label prescribing of psychotropic drugs, and anecdotal evidence isnt good enough.
These medications carry black box warnings for a reason they increase harm, and are ineffective.
Jack2
You’re vague here.
Do you oppose only off-label use of these drugs, or do you oppose both on-label and off-label use.
Also does the lack of medical test for manic depressive disorder (bipolar disorder), depression, schizophrenia, and ADHD mean you don’t believe these disorders exist? Or do you just not believe they exist in toddlers?
Supremacy Claus
The most valid evidence is their continued use by millions of families, in the continued interest of their children. This awful, biased blog will never allow such data.
Scientific studies have no scientific validity for reasons that may be discussed elsewhere. The discussion would require having completed 11th grade statistics, which no FDA official seems to have done. The left wing hate speech spewers here likely shunned any math course.
The left believes it knows the interests of the child better than the parents or teachers of the child. That is just not true. I await the first move by Thompson or anyone like him. I am interested in making an example of any such state official by unleashing the Justice Department on this vile racist.
The reliability and validity of psychiatric diagnoses is the same as those of any chronic disease specialty. The reliability and validity of the tests you cited is often lower than that of psychiatric diagnosis.
Lisa, you seem so interested in health care. I think you should bite the bullet, and enroll a health care school. You will find nothing cut and dry, not even the simplest pulse count.
laurie
“All treatment for all chronic disease is non-specific. ”
Absolutely not true. Insulin injections replace a missing pancreatic hormone. Blood sugar is measurable and there is a “normal” blood level of glucose to be maintained through the use of that insulin.
Cardiac drugs have specific measurable outcomes and known effects for each category. Blood pressure regulation, BNpep, heart rate etc…are all measureable and can document positive response.
Atypical antipsychotics treat symptoms of an unknown cause, which could be biological, emotional, nutritional etc…. There is no “normal” level to achieve, since the cause is unknown. A child being able to sit in a seat for 6 hours is not good enough to label a drug a success.
While many doctors love the “it’s the same as taking insulin for diabetes” analogy, it’s far from a true statement.
Lisa Van S
Jack2
Do I believe these disorders exist,.. absolutely.
Do I believe manic depressive disorder can be diagnosed in an infant or toddler,.. No I Dont.
In 2000 my daughter was diagnosed w/depression and anorexia nervosa and was prescribed a witches brew of Psychiatric Meds. The medications caused her to self mutilate, induced psychosis, she became violent and attempted suicide, twice. She vomited blood, and had rectal bleeding I was told the meds were safe and effective.
It turned out that my daughter had been misdiagnosed, she had Lyme Disease.
So Jack2,… when it comes to the life of a child,. one cant afford mistakes. GSK knew that their drug Paxil could harm thousands of children and chose to stay silent. That is a crime in my book. Provide parents with unbiased medical information and allow them to decide what is an appropiate treatment for their child. The children in foster care a mere experiments, and society should give a damn in regards to their safety.
Supremacy Claus
Laurie: What is a normal blood pressure, by age, sex, weight, and race? Try taking a second blood pressure one minute after the first. Why are blood pressure goals changing faster than you change dresses? Take blood pressure in a doctor’s office, then at home. Try taking a blood pressure daytime, night time. When recording blood pressure do you also have to assess respiration, emotion, exercise, meals, tobacco, alcohol, temperature, bladder distension, pain. When measuring race, how do you do that, by matching the skin to a standardized fan deck of skin color swatches? What if the dude took a walk in the sun, do you match the sample swatches to the dark face or the lighter tush?
Blood pressure measurement is so easy and precise, unlike psychiatric diagnosis. What straightforward formula do you plug these factors into? How do you select an anti-hypertensive? Do you start with the one whose drug rep gave you a sandwich an hour ago?
Patient returns, says, “I feel dizzy.” What do you do then? Tell us because hypertension has “specific measurable outcomes.”
I also recommend that you enroll in a health care school, or volunteer as an EMT for a few days. Deal with a couple of real patients. Do some measurements and make some decisions. Repeat the measurements in 5 minutes, see if you would make the same decision. Then, return here, repeat your remark.
Supremacy Claus
“Provide parents with unbiased medical information and allow them to decide what is an appropiate treatment for their child.”
They have, by the millions. You just do not like their answer. You want to deprive them of a good tool, without providing a responsible alternative. By your rules, FDA approved Mellaril and Haldol would be the only alternatives permissible. You should take the smallest dose of either yourself, report your preference then.
Pharma /Pharmacist
The off label usage of atypical antipsychotics in pediatrics may have been encouraged with the CME programs describing the appropriate pediatric patient. Needless to say these CME programs were given to providers during the representative visits to the providers offices. Let’s face it, all of us like CME to stay on the cutting edge of medicine and we like to hear about new therapeutic paradigms. Unfortunately, these CME programs were moderated by thought leaders who had collected massive amounts of money from research for the pharma industry selling these antipsychotics.
Supremacy Claus
Thought leader, junior to the average clinician in every category, including IQ, lecturing a bunch of sleeping doctors.
Parent to whom one is morally, legally, and financially accountable, desperately seeking help with a distressed, dangerous child in their home.
Which influences the clinician more? Sure, Pharma, millions of kids have been prescribed anti-psychotics because of a lecture by an inexperienced dunce.
Nathan
I think Thompson’s responce to Ed’s first question says everything about this guy’s motives:
Ed: “So why are you looking into this? Why is this an issue?”
Thompson: “The number one drug class in expenditures is atypical anti-pyschotics in almost every state.”
Don’t feed me the crap about this guy caring for the kids more than doctors do. This is all purely economics. The states are trying to save money. Unfortunately, we have a bunch of number-crunchers trying to second guess the opinions of well-trained doctors who have all taken the Hipocratic oath. It’s rather funny to me that Lisa, Laurie, and others here are willing to jump behind in support of number-crunchers over doctors. Yet, let’s put the shoe on the other foot. Who’s side will you be on when medicaid (or an insurance company) denies payment for an experimental cancer treatment that may save your life?
#30 Sub Cole Slaw
Well trained doctors?
Prescribing antipsychotic drugs for ADHD?
Where do they receive THAT training?
Perhaps the school of grease these Hipocratic palms?
That’s precisely what has been found in the only state that keeps decent records of pharma funding to doctors - Minnesota. The highest amount of prescriptions for antipsychotics, were predictably written by the geasiest palms.
Pharmalot has written about this. The NY Times has also.
Sam
Read the tile of and first line of this article. It is not about cancer medications, it’s about atypical antipsychotics eating up State Medicaid budgets.
See http://www.psychdrugdangers.com/US/MedicaidPsychDrugPayments.html which lists the Medicaid payments made for the various psychiatric drug classes since its inception in 1991 through the 3rd quarter of 2007. $37,347,017,695 (that’s 37 Billion) has been paid out of the Medicaid coffers for atypical antipsychotics.
Except for aripiprazole (Abilify) which was approved less than a year ago in Nov 2007 for the treatment of Schizophrenia in teenagers aged 13-17 and only seven months ago in Feb 2008 for the acute treatment of manic and mixed episodes of Bipolar Disorder I; clozapine (Clozaril, Leponex) which is approved for patients with Schizophrenia or Schizoaffective Disorder; risperidone (Risperdal) which is approved for treating Schizophrenia in teenagers 13-17, and short-term treatment of manic or mixed episodes of Bipolar Disorder I in pediatric patients aged 10-17, and for irritability associated with autism in children and teens aged 5-16, none of the atypical antipsychotics are otherwise FDA-approved for pediatric use.
Olanzapine (Zyrexa), paliperidone (Invega), quetiapine (Seroquel) and ziprasidone (Geodon, Zeldox) are not FDA-approved for pediatric use at all.
While the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services (from which these payment statistics were obtained) do not include patient age, it is conservatively estimated that 12% of these totals were for pediatric patients. Therefore approximately $4,481,642,123 in Medicaid payments were made for atypical antipsychotic prescriptions written for pediatric patients. Many of those prescriptions definitely did not have any FDA approval for pediatric use:
aripiprazole - $2,105,445,306 (before 2007)
olanzapine - $12,671,831,583
paliperidone - $8,599,665
quetiapine - $6,194,734,379
ziprasidone - $1,475,389,442
Many of the other psychiatric drugs that accounted for high Medicaid payments are also not FDA-approved for pediatric use at all. See http://www.psychdrugdangers.com/NotApprovedForPediatricUse.html
In total, according to the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services, Medicaid has paid out $99,748,628,292 for all psychiatric drug prescriptions between 1991 and the third quarter of 2007.
Include those Medicaid patients who went over to Medicare Plan D coverage in 2006 and it’s easily over $100 Billion dollars that has been paid by State and Federal tax dollars for these drugs.
Supremacy Claus
“Where do they receive THAT training?”
From the best teacher, patient outcome.
Supremacy Claus
Racists.
laurie
“I also recommend that you enroll in a health care school, or volunteer as an EMT for a few days. Deal with a couple of real patients. Do some measurements and make some decisions. Repeat the measurements in 5 minutes, see if you would make the same decision. Then, return here, repeat your remark.”
SC….I’ve been a working nurse for 24 years. I believe my direct patient contact is much more extensive than your pharmaceutical sales.
Monica
Supremacy Clause, you disgust me. Are you a parent? If so, I truly feel for your children, as you would rather dope them than parent them, from what it appears.
Let me give you the breakdown of most kids who have Medicaid. Their parents fall into the lower economic ranks. Why? Because they are largely uneducated. They trust the doctors that prescribe 4 and 5 psychotropics and antipsychotics to their 4 yr olds. They figure the doctor is far more educated, and knows what is best. Put it simple, they don’t question…
The others on Medicaid? Those in foster care, who’s foster parents don’t have a say in their treatment, as it is court ordered.
I live by one of these Medicaid kiddie pill factories in Florida. It is called the Harbor. It is the only approved facility to treat children on Medicaid in my county.
I was once a single mom with a son who has the dx of adhd. The school had referred us to this facility. This facility, after examining my 9 yr old son for all of 20 minutes, and giving him the dx of ODD, ADHD, and depression, prescribed Adderal, Risperdol, and an antidepressant (which was NOT FDA approved for use in children at the time).
He didn’t need any of those, he needed a Dad, and more activity!
After his “exam”, I was asked to go to the “prescription” room for samples. Boxes were piled from floor to ceiling! There were more pharma rep crap gadgets than in a Pharma Toys R Us!
Needless to say, we threw out the samples, never filled the scripts, and never went back.
Our uneducated, alcoholic, McDonald’s working, neighbor’s 13 yr old son (who is also treated through the Harbor) takes 18 pills a day, a combination of 7 medications! His dx? Aspergers! WTF is approved to treat Aspergers?
The kid twitches and blinks with every word he speaks now. Wasn’t like that before he started going to the Harbor, but he is more compliant now, for whatever that is worth.
I have a child with autism, and attend a support group. What saddens me most are the families referred to the Harbor. I met one once that had a 5 yr old son, on 4 psychotropics, Straterra AND Risperdal!
What is happening to our children is a crime, and a disgusting one at that.
And yes, pharma is partly to blame, perhaps not as much as these idiot doctors prescribing the meds, but pharma knows what is going on. Very similar to Purdue and Oxys. They may only make it, and the doctors overprescribe, but they are still to blame, as they realize it is overprescribed. Does Purdue care? Hell no, not when sales are looking so bright!
Lastly, I don’t think it will be a good idea for Medicaid to stop covering off label meds. It’s not Medicaid’s fault. It’s the doctors. And it is costing our nation dearly.
Supremacy Claus
Monica: Thank you for your candor. You know better than Medicaid patients what is good for their children. Their consents to treatment have no validity, and your policy on children you have never met has greater validity the opinions of parents and teachers.
Set an example. Enroll as a respite foster parent for weekends. Then take the 5 year old son into your home, request it be med free. No one will object as long as you get to take the consequences. Then show us the right way to treat these children. Ask Ed to invite you to guest blog. And share your methods with the nation. If they work, they will spread quickly.
Monica
So, by your standards Supremacy Claus, the “diagnosis” of “foster child” requires medication? I didn’t know the FDA approved that one…
Your logic is irreversibly flawed. How do YOU presume to know what treatment children YOU have never met should receive?
I am just comforted to know that 99% of those who read this see you for the corrupt moron that you are.
Carolyn Meece
As a survivor of “Soviet-style Psychiatric Terrorism”, Trauma-based Mind Control” and Suicidal Programming I see psychiatry and those who demand to force feed the evil killer psychiatric drugs as fraud. Much of psychiary is a criminal enterprise. What I see are abusers and those into homicidal activity demanding to illegally force feed the antipsychotics for illegal purposes. It has absolutely nothing to do with one being psychotic, delusional, etc. It is for “Off Label” and criminal purposes. I call it “Soul Murder”.
If an abuser does not like the person speaking the truth he/she feels they can illegally use the antipsychotics and for “Fix Is In”. The corrupt and controlling are illegally demanding for people to be their slave, robot, puppet, and “Zombie”. They want obedient slaves. I also look at what is taking place as euthansia. What I do notice is that many who are into violence, forms of torture, and promote violence are big pushers of the evil killer psychiatric drugs. They are not out to help society or protect others and only care about how much money they can extort out of people, taxpayers, and insurance companies. They seem to get great enjoyment out of seeing others down and suffering from the abuse, torture, and insantiy, and venom they spew forth. Mental health has been taken over by a bunch of thugs suffering from “Hero Syndrome”, “Caretaker”, and “Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy”.
What we see are inside jobs and it is the system that is raping, destroying, and killing people. It is also the drugs that form pixels on the brains of those who are force fed the evil killer drugs. The pixels have absolutely nothing to do with the person having any real mental illness. There is absolutely no test that will tell if a victim/target has any real mental illness. Much of psychiatry is a con game, sham, fake healing, mad doctoring, “Emotional Blackmail”, etc.
The system is full of corruption, drug pushers, and evil. I can also say that it is “High-Extortion” because they do not have any solutions for the problems they illegally create and make things 10x’s worse. They feel they can charge for the problems they have illegally created. I myself look at it as “Money Laundering”. Mental Health is being used as a false front involving the illegal activity that really takes place. The psychiatric drugs are also being used for false purposes involving fake illnesses. The corrupt feels all that he/she has to do is to defraud the records in order to make the ends justify the means and look at themself as invincible or untouchable. Actually they are accidents waiting to happen because of their criminal and illegal acts of provoking and attacking their victims/targets so they can “CRY_WOLF”.
Psychology is the game. People are the toy.
Part of the game is knowing what the game really is. People are used as pawns in a game of chess “Checkmate”. As many of us know the truth and while they pretend they are saviors. They are bald-faced liars reek of the stench of death. We also have a shaddow government who refuses to work for taxpayers.
“Toxic Psychiatry”, “PSYCHIATRISTS KILL”, “PSYCHIATRY KILLS”, “SOUL MURDER”
Carolyn Meece
I do understand that many places have people who are paid to watch the blogs who will deny what is taking place and attack those who speak the truth. It is very obivious in a number of blogs. A number of people need to get out of bed with the drug companies.
What we do have are abusers attacking innocent people and illegally demanding to be able to force feed the evil killer drugs. Those in the so-called mental health industry and drug companies have knowingly lied about the evil killer psychiatric drugs for decades and decades. Unless you have walked three moons in many of our shoes the sick comments are not welcomed. There are a great number of psychiatric horror stories.
The evil killer psychiatric drugs are used to create fear, humiliation, and submission in individuals, communities, and societies.
Hitler used psychiatrits during the cold war.
The elephant in the room is too huge and cannot be shoved under the rug.
The so-called mental health industry is full of denial of fraud, insanity, abuse, forms of torture, and homicidal activity that takes place in reality. They cannot even get their lies straight. When one tells a lie, he/she has to tell another lie to cover up for the lie they just told. It amounts to Ideology and propaganda. Much of psychiatry is the dark side of medicine. Many cannot hold any competent or rational conversation. One cannot rationalize that which sounds cuckoo or bizarre. The combination of fake labels is all about CYA. “The False Claims Act” does not allow anyone to turn in fraudulent reports to what is supposed to be the people’s government.
It is all “Deranged” as on “Animal Farm”, “Dancing in the Dark” because they do not want “End of Violence”.
“Try, Try to Remember” because “On a clear day one can see forever who they really are”. “Thanks for the Memories, the Truth Shall Set Me Free”
What one does see in the so-called mental health industry is constantly Mob Action, Mob Rules, Mob Mentality, Kangaroo Court, with the abusers and corrupt demanding to act as Judge, Jury, and Executioner. He who lives by the sword will die by his/her own sword.
Revelations 20:10 and the Bible tells us to watch out for wolves in sheep’s clothing. The plank is in their own eye.
Carolyn Meece
Actually insurance companies should demand that the corrupt psychiatrists and so-called mental health places pay back all the thousands and thousands if not millions of dollars that they have illegally extorted from insurance companies and the government for their corruption and illegal activities. The corrupt feel they can screw people with their health insurance and money if they are stupid enough to pay it. The money is not going towards improving one’s mind, health, or life.
One cannot tell if he/she is living in Communist China, Red Russia, or Nazi Germany because it is that sick, insane, and deadly.
What these sick people do is to push people to the edge and illegally demand they go over.
Who is to say that even a parent/ doctor/psychiatrist/official/etc. is fit to make decisions for any victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime”?
There are some who work in the so-called mental health industry who are survivors and some were taught how to kill as children. Many do not have any morals, ethics, or credibility. There is no such thing as a “Perfect Child”. The corrupt feel they can look at any person as his/her child. They demand the perfect child so that they do not have to deal with the hurts of the past. The corrupt demand that no one can reject him/her and rejection makes them angry and they seek revenge. Their motto is: “I am going to make you want and need me.” They inflict “Stockholm Syndrome”. The perfect child is only a dream. They all act like children when they argue, fuss, fight, throw tantrums, etc. “Alice-in-Wonderland” and the rabbit hole and the Mad Hatter Tea Party.
“Boys & Girls, Superheroes in the Doll Corner”, let’s pretend you are this and I am that. When I go wha, wha, wha you have to come running and that makes you my robot.
Nathan
Carolyn Meece,
Are you suggesting that those of us in this blog that disagree with you are being paid to do so by pharma? You crack me up!
If people disagree with your well-thought-out opinion then they MUST be off-their rocker or be in “bed with the drug companies”. How arrogant. Have you entertained the thought that some intelligent people out there genuinely consider these drugs to be useful?
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
The issue being discussed here is the haphazard, overprecribing of antipsychotics in a vulnerable population, not cancer treatments.
umut duman
I no believe any chemical subtances helps really spiritually. But they make more animal like people. and the money spend that area too badly wasted. We can use this money to improve social conditions.
Nathan
Lisa,
What you are discussing here has a major impact on OTHER areas — such as cancer treatments. There is no reason that financial analysts for medicaid programs should be able to decide what is and isn’t appropriate treatment of disease. If you have a problem with how doctors are treating psychiatric diseases, take it up with the AMA or the APA. By going after the payer (insurance or medicaid) you are putting many other life-saving treatments at risk. You should be targeting the prescribers — not the payers.
If Medicaid decides that prescribers are prescribing too many antipsychotics, then fine. They’ll cut funding for off-label prescriptions. What’s next? Next they’ll decide that prescribers are prescribing too many antibiotics? Too many antihypertensives? Too many chemotherapies?
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
“What’s next? Next they’ll decide that prescribers are precribing too many antiobiotics”
One can tell that you are a young parent. Complaints of overscribing of antibiotics dates back more than 15 years. Thats why you see less prescribing of antibiotics for pediatric ear infections.
Lisa Van S
Nathan,
“Too many chemotherapies?”,.. Here you are just being plane silly!
harpy
If the drugs work, why won’t the pharmaceutical companies conduct proper clinical trials to get the indication and change the labels? Obviously the companies are making money hand over fist on the prescriptions. Seems like the quickest, easiest way to clear all of this up is to do the studies and get the approval.
And yet they don’t. Why is that?
Lisa Van S
harpy,
Eli Lilly has posted two of their Zyprexa clinical trials on the clinicaltrial.gov, and the results were pretty bad.
Nathan
Harpy writes: “If the drugs work, why won’t the pharmaceutical companies conduct proper clinical trials to get the indication and change the labels?”
1) Once compounds are generic, no one is making much money and no one will pay for a clinical trial. (except maybe a government agency) Besides, a generic company won’t run a trial because the results would help thier competitors as much as it helps them.
2) Clinical trials take years. Unless there is significant patent life left (>5 years?) then no one will run clinical trial.
3) Have you seen how many rejections that the FDA has been handing out? Even if we spend the $$ and have relatively positive results, we cannot predict the FDA outcome.
4) It’s not “obvious” that companies are making money “hand-over-fist”. Have you seen how many layoffs there have been lately? Contrary to your beliefs, companies do NOT have an infinite amount of money to run whatever tests we want. These clinical trials can cost tens of millions of $.
Jim Moore
Supremacy Claus , # September 10th, 2008 # 4:53 pm, you gave an exact description of drug withdrawal. Another reason why these drugs should never have been started.
truthman30
“Have you entertained the thought that some intelligent people out there genuinely consider these drugs to be useful?”
As useful as banging your TV set with a mallet when the picture goes fuzzy…
Jack2
Lisa I’m genuinely sorry for the tragedy in your family.
I think you’re seeing this only through the lens of psychotropic medications, a group of medications we all know you hold a negative view of. For me and off-label prescribing, whether it’s psychotropics, chemo, antibiotics - or anything else - I don’t think Lisa Van S, Jack2, CMS, or anyone should make these choices for large groups of people.
I just want my doctor making that choice.
Lisa Van S
Jack2,
Our family suffered pain,. Not Tragedy. My daughter survived w/no thanks to GSK.
“I just want my doctor making that choice.”… Do you really?… The doc who receives hundreds of thousands of dollars from industry to promote their product… How naive can one be?
harpy
So what you’re saying, Nathan, is that it isn’t about the health of the patient, but the money to be made. Without controlled studies how can one be sure the results are beneficial?
Ed has posted stories about the off-label use of anti-psychotics in seniors with dementia - FDA determined there is an increased risk of death.
How do we know what these drugs are doing to kids down the road? What effect do they have on developing minds? Will the kids develop normally? No one knows, because no one wants to spend the money to find out? That’s a pretty piss-poor excuse, and I think kids deserve better than a short-sighted, short-term solution to a problem they may not even have. Fail.
harpy
Also, Nathan, don’t forget pharma gets extended patent rights for doing studies on the effects of drugs on children. Lisa’s comment on Zyprexa is telling - the cynical version is that the companies know their products don’t work or have adverse effects on children and would rather make money on off-label sales than be proven ineffective.
Nathan
Harpy writes:
“So what you’re saying, Nathan, is that it isn’t about the health of the patient, but the money to be made.”
If there were no money to be made, there would be no drugs. You give me a list of all the drugs developed by non-profits and by government agencies. Much to your chagrin, pharma companies, hospitals, insurance companies, and even doctors rarely act altruisticly. Profit motive drives innovation. If there is no profit to be made, then the tests simply aren’t going to be done. You can call us all the names you want, but it won’t change reality.
laurie
“If there is no profit to be made, then the tests simply aren’t going to be done”
And this is where the off label controversy comes in. There is alot of money being made in the off label use of antipsychotics and ssri’s. So the “we can’t make enough money to do the clinical trial” argument doesn’t stand up here.
I understand that profit drives innovation, but in this case the off label prescribing is circumventing any true disclosure of risk/benefit. The benefit is based on a specific practioners experience with the drug, not a scientific process of data collection.
I can tell you that adverse reaction identification/reporting from a practitioner prescribing off label is nil. So the “I want my doctor making that choice” has the potential to be extremely biased towards the positive side. Thousands have reported adverse reactions and those reactions have been dismissed by their doctor.
This practice leads to misinformation to the patient and potential harm due to the under reporting of risk.
Nathan
Laurie,
I really do understand the quandary here. The system isn’t perfect — far from it. But what is the correct course of action? I can only see a two alternatives to the current system:
1) Ban off-label prescription altogether (it doesn’t make any sense to me to ban just a particular class of drugs being used off-label. It’s all or nothing)
2) Government funded testing to definitively answer the off-label questions.
Neither of these seem appetizing to me. I’d rather stick with the current system, in spite of the problems it presents. As I’ve said before, I agree with your views about “full disclosure” when a doctor prescribes a drug off-label. I think if doctors actually did this, then most of these debates would go away.
laurie
“As I’ve said before, I agree with your views about “full disclosure” when a doctor prescribes a drug off-label. I think if doctors actually did this, then most of these debates would go away.”
There is no easy answer, but disclosure of off label status is at least a first step. If a patient is aware of this use, they are at least armed with the basic information that they are taking a drug that is not FDA approved, or scientifically tested. I don’t believe that is the case with the way drugs are explained to patients today.
The off label status being revealed to the patient, in my opinion, is a basic “right to know”.
harpy
ok, yes Nathan, we know pharma is not altruistic, they’ve been proving it for years. Why do you think government funded testing isn’t an option? Do you care at all what the drugs may be doing to the kids? Sometimes a desire to help those in need drives innovation.
It’s funny how pharma is trying to change its image and pretend like it’s big-hearted when all you industry types keep telling us all that matters is a big-wallet.
And I didn’t call you any names.
AA
Nathan, I am not so sure I would call cancer drugs life saving. I read an article recently in which someone treated with one of those life saving drugs at 15 had had 4 heart attacks and an endless number of problems.
I also read that the so called cancer survivor rates are deceptive and not looking as good as people think.
Of course, I totally forgot where I found the article and people will think I am making this up .
Anyway, my mother lived until 93 in spite of smoking for 35 years. I honestly think the reason is until the last few years of her life, she took very few drugs. I have no proof to back that up obviously but it is something to think about.
Supremacy Claus - Since you think antipsychotics are so wonderful, I think you need to take one of these drugs for a year. Then you should cold turkey the drug and come and report your experiences.
Carolyn Meece
I am not stating that anyone cannot take these drugs so do not try to put words in my mouth. I have had enough of the insanity and violating my “Freedom of Speach” in which to tell the truth. I am fed up with people and corrupt doctors/psychiatrists, corrupt, etc. that illegally demand to take authority over criminal activity and illegallty demand that I lie about what has taken place. It is illegal to enterfere in a victim/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime” tesitmony.
One cannot change history or reality or rewrite either in order to let criminals/homicidal off the hook. No matter how much you or anyone else tries to discredit me. I do have a lot of credibility and will take the corrupt and evil to task. Those who illegally think they can use their authority and illegally demand that one see things his/her way and that victims/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime” cannot speak the truth and they be allowed to brainwash, threaten, and have a do or die attitute. I have every right to tell it the way that it is and what really takes place in reality. When you assume you make a ass out of you and me too. I have taken a number of bullies to task. I am fed up with the shaddow government and all the coverups. Those who suffer from Caretaker, Hero Syndrome, Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy and be considered “Serial Killers” depending on how many people have died. The stress that takes place is enough to kill a good American Citizen.
“infowars.com”, jackblood.com”
It is my Constitutional Rights and no one has any right to violate my Bill of Rights or Amendment VIII, etc. I have my own knowledge involving psychiatric, bad, corrupt, and evil doctors/phychiatrists, mental hellholes, abusers, predators, corrupt officials, Gestapo, perpetrators, etc.
I absolutely refuse to pay cold-blooded killers for his/her/their being bullies, brainwashing, insanity, etc. We have every right to be real human beings and refuse to be robots, puppets, or “Zombie”.
Neither have I stated that everyone who works in mental health is bad. After all an honest Clinical psychologist helped save my life.
I have worked on my memories and any evil doctor/psychiatrist who says that they have to help me with my memories is very psychotic, delusional, paranoid, and has deep rooted psychological problems, and corrupt. It is illegal for them to “Obstruct Justice”, “Aid & Abet”, and “Accessory After the Fact”.
I can only look at you as abusive and we have every right to put an end to abuse, violence, and forms of torture. If you are in denial of the truth then I do not have to feel bad because you want to feel good about attacking my integrity. I neither have to feel guilt or shame for speaking the truth involving reality.
Perhaps you even need to do your homework involving “Human Experiments” and what really goes on under the cover-up of help, treatment, care, reality, medicine,etc.
“How to Break Them Down”
The Fall of Ted Haggard, “If you had read the books that I have read and know the people that I know. Then you would be great like me.”
The road to hell was paved with good intentions.
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
We do have laws against illegal forced drugging, hostage taking, false imprisonment, insurance fraud, “Enterprise Corruption, “Racketeering”, Money Laundering, cold-blooded killing, etc. Forms of torture are illegal anywhere in the world and so is homicidal activity. It is illegal to file false insurance claims. It is illegal to use the psychiatric drugs for illegal purposes.
I cannot see things through Ideology and Propaganda. I cannot rationalize that which is irrational. All the wasted money and money going towards evil, crimianal/homicidal activity could be used on necessary medical expense and helping people’s lives instead of destroying and killing in cold-blood.
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
“mindfreedom.org”, “drugawareness.org” and others take it up with the Psychiatric Association all the time. They even protest when ever they have get togethers.
Nathan
Carolyn, I think you need some serious help or some serious sleep. Your posts make no sense to me. The question most of us in this thread are discussing is: “Should antipsychotics be prescribed off-label? If not, should ANY drug be prescribed off-label?” If you have an opinion on this question, I’d love to hear a concise response.
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
A number of survivors can honestly state that the so-called mental health industry is full of greed. Much of psychiatry is about “Bedlam”, money, power, greed, control, Religion, perks, and kickbacks etc. No all perks are paid in the form of money, and a number of kickbacks could be turned into money. It can be even in the form of Cub Tickets, artwork, Limo Rides, food, etc. I even heard “The boss gets mad if the beds are not filled.
Some of the drugs were known to burn the body from inside out. They are known to cause organ failure and to even kill some people in the heat of summer, etc. Absolutely no one has the right to try to play God and decide who can live and who has to die. It is illegal to treat criminals better than victims/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime”.
“Confessions of a Drug Rep.”
If I write “Continued Reality” Reports to those involved in hostage taking, illegal forced drugging, insurance fraud, extoriton, “Emotional Blackmail”, “Racketeering” etc. I do not have a problem taking other abuser, bad doctors, etc. to task. The so-called mental health industry and drug companies have knowingly lied about the evil killer drugs for years. If one has been force fed them they leave pixels on the brain. The pixels are drug induced. They the corrupt feel they can demand to be able to use the needless, unnecessary, and expensive EEG’s and say that one has brain damage or a fake mental illness. The world is full of greedy, malicious, and violent people. It is in violation of one’s Amendment VIII rights to use the psychiatric drugs for illegal purposes including brainwashing, or false confessions. A number of false labels does not add up to a person having any real illness. The psychological scars of survivors do not match the concocted stories of abuser, predators, corrupt and evil doctors/psychiatrists.
“Forensic Science” tells who is speaking the truth and who is lying. A bunch of lies do not make any truth. What counts is Timeline, Motive, Alibi, “Forensic Science, etc. The corrupt, abusers, doctor/psychiatrist make some of the most psychotic and delusional statements. Some people get great enjoyment out of seeing others hurt, suffer, destroyed, and die of broken hearts, etc. They illegally demand to be able to push the victims/targets to the edge and illegally demand that he/she go over. If the victim/target gets mad, etc. then they feel they can “CRY_WOLF” or call out their guard dogs.
“The False Claims Act” does not allow anyone to turn in fraudulent records to what is supposed to be the people’s government.
“REFUSED FOR FRAUD WITHOUT DISHONOR”
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
The constant making up of labels is a sickness within itself. False labels do not make any real illness or mental illness. We can see that the corrupt makes up a number of false labels in order to force feed a cocktail of dangerous evil psychiatric drugs which side effects equal to the false labels. It is called CYA because they are involved in criminal/homicidal activity. The criminal activity of others does not make for the victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime” having any real illness. What is normal for victims/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime” the corrupt/homicidal feel they can make it into a false mental illness. It is a true fact the corrupt/homicidal are “in your face” people and constantly tell bald-faced lies. Their motto is “Do or Die” which is the same as “Do and Die”. There is not any difference. The Compiled Statues, law of the land, Constitution have to be followed.
As Dr. Sally Satel, one of Bush’s closest advisors who is a psychiatrists stated “From the mental ward to prison.” Many of us can see how it is all insanely done.
If a person thrives in getting confessions it sooner or later becomes a sickness to him/her. A confession becomes like a drug, the more they get they more they need. They do not care if the confession is legitimate or not, they just want a confession. The needs of the child molesters, rapists, criminals, ritual abusers, terrorists, and etc. are more important than yhe victim of survivor.
Thought reform may include physical torture, manipulating and inducing guilt, alternating threats with kindness, constant surveillance, extracting confessins, and controlling information and communications.
Oxygen, oxygen, I need oxygen. Everyone is sitting on me and I can’t breathe. I need oxygen. The abuse, forms of torture, and the stress from all the insanity,criminal/homicidal activity, abuse, forms of torture, etc. causes the immune system to break down and also respirator illnesses. It is illegal to withold needed medication from a victim/target and then falsely report otherwise. They teach children to associate love with hate and abandonment, trust with attack and betrayal, joy with catastrophe, and so on. They refuse to deal with reality.
“Brainwashing In Red China”
“Brainwashing: From Pavlov to Power”.
“Satan’s School for Girls”, why don’t they go out and buy a rat.
“Take Me For A Ride”
It is a felony to demand a person take about killing himself/herself, or brainwash him/her into it, or illegally demand that he/she do so. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, not dictators. The “Burden of Proof” lies with the accusers, and victims/targets are entitled to their rights to “Due Process”, the right to confront his or her accusers in real court of law and not Kangaroo court, the right to provide for his/her “Denfense”, and the right to have witnesses in his/her favor. Our Forefathers fought for all these rights.
The so-called mental health industry not only promotes violence, but they are into violence. This is not to say that they are all violent.
One can see very clearly that a number of them are into fear, terror, and violence. It is time to have the Nuremberg Trials. Like the Nazi death doctors Dr. No, Dr. Stangelove,
Dr. Death will also be charged for his/her “Unspeakable Crimes Against Humanity”.
“False Memory”, “Not in This Town”
Nathan
Carolyn,
You didn’t even come close to responding to the question I posed. You just ranted about the evils of psychiatry/pharma. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about how to deal with the problems of the present situation, then I’d be glad to have it. If you are just looking for someone to read your ranting, then forget about it.
By the way, you have a very different definition of “concise” than I do.
By the way, are you related to Lisa Van S? Your writing style (or lack thereof) closely resembles some of her postings here.
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
I have been given a clean bill of health. I have my memories.
Nathan I hear you say that you need some very serious help or some serious sleep. Since I have complete knowledge in psychiatry and the evil killer psychiatric drugs your postings do not make any sense. They do not make any more sense than sick, twisted, and perverted records or bald-faced lies. You cannot change reality. You are only making yourself look bad by constanlty attacking others involving their postings and writing Ideology and Propagana.
I have been posting about the “off labeling” of the evil killer psychiatric drugs for illegal purposes and the purposes of brainwashing, false confessions, etc.
The present system is corrupt, rotten to the core, and very deadly. There are thousands of psychiatric horror stories. Even though everything is posted before your very eyes your want to deny the truth. Tell me are you working in the so-called mental health industry or with the drug companies, etc.? You definitely have the personality of an abuser and you do not have any right to viciously attack others. You only seem to want to hear what you want to hear and not the truth.
It is like you have “Tunnel Vision”.
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE “OFF LABEL” USE OF THE EVIL KILLER PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS AND THE SICK, TWISTED, AND PERVERTED SO-CALLED MENTAL HEALTH INDUSTRY.” I CANNOT SEE THINGS FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND YOU ARE ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOING THE VERY THINGS THAT YOU ARE DOING. THAT IS VERY TYPICAL OF ABUSERS, CORRUPT, AND THOSE IN THE SO-CALLED MENTAL HEALTH INDUSTRY.
MENTAL HEALTH IS BEING USED AS A FALSE FRONT.
THE MENTAL HEALTH INDUSTRY HAS BEEN CORRUPT FOR DECADES AND DECADES.
I HEAR YOU SAY THAT YOU LIKE THE PRESENT SYSTEM. IT REEKS OF THE STENCH OF DEATH.
“REFLECTIONS OF REALITY”, “I CAN SEE”
“TRANCE FORMATION OF AMERICA”
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
It is very clear that you do not want to deal with the truth involving psychiatry and the evil killer psysychiatry drugs and the “Off Label” use. It is very clear that you seem to enjoy viciously attacking those who post the truth. As for my knowledge. I did not find very much intelligence in your postings.
Nathan, it is very clear that you refuse to deal with the real problems of the so-called mental health industry. I hear you say that you do not want any meeaniful discussion. I hear you say that you didn’t ever come close to responding to the questions I posed.
I do not know Lisa Van S. but I can admire her for her postings and what she has to say.
Nathan you are in a no win situation just like the bullies in the so-called mental health industry. You use the very same low down rotten methods that losers use. You do not have any valid points so you have to viciously attack, hit below the belt, or sling mud. When I went to school my teachers taught me how to debate and what I do. I do well. I also play detective very well.
Like I tell the evil killer psychiatrists, corrupt, bullies, predators, perpetrators, etc. Shove the evil killer psychiatric drugs down your own throat and it will do more for society. First remove the plank from your own eye and then you will see that their is only a splinter in my eye. I have taken a number of people like you to task.
What is the name of your game. Can anyone play? Part of the game is knowing what the game really is. Psychology is the game. People are the toy. “Shell Game”, deny, deny, deny.
Like Martin Luther stated there is a problem in the so-called church at Midnight. As they say tell it like it is and that is what you will get.
Carolyn Meece
What we have is the pot calling the kettle black.
Pharma /Pharmacist
Typicall the Justice in Michigan has it spot on. Let’s be reasonable without placing total blame on any one party. There is plenty of blame to go around.
First.
The number of “drug babies” has increased creating a new paradigm for parents, caregivers, and the educational system alike. There is also more exposure to the toxicity of organic chemicals in everyday life…foods cooked in the microwave in plastics, pesticides in produce grown outside and perhaps inside the US…etc. Obviously something is amiss and likely due to lots of sources.
Second. The heathcare system is struggling with attempts to maintain(not increase) the profit margin to keep the lights on at the office, pay office employees that have increased due to expanded documentation requirements, and maintain salaries of health care providers. The result finds psychiatrists scheduling patients every 10 minutes. During this appointment, the psychiatrist is writing 90% of the time for medicaid patients to fill out the pages and pages of paperwork required for each visit. There is about 10% eye contact during the visit. This is NOT the practice of psychiatry as it should be…there should be a team approach with psychology, pharmacy, psychiatry…alas this is non existent. The single easiest solution for the psychiatrist is to write a prescription or change the dose. I have watched this occur to my dismay.
Finally.
Let’s serve up some blame to the pharaceutical industry who is ready and able to supply that pharmaceutical for the overburdened psychiatrist supported by a patient population of parents and caregivers who wants immediate results for their child.
The use of polypharmacy with off label psychotropics for children is a crime…period. THere is blame for all of us. This pediatric patient is not a straight forward case and thus should be treated by a team of health care providers representing several specialties who take the time to uncover issues and offer solutions.
Supremacy Claus
Pharmacist: You said, “The use of polypharmacy with off label psychotropics for children is a crime…period.”
Please, cite the law such a practice violates?
Supremacy Claus
Carolyn: You seem upset by something. Please, tell us how psychiatry offended you. Remove adjectives from your reply. They are not persuasive. Facts are.
Pharma /Pharmacist
Supremacy Claus,
Of course providers can prescribe psychotropics on or off label, yet the current paradign for both commercial insurances and medicaid is radiply changing for approvals for ONLY on label indications. Those off label indications must require PRIOR AUTHORIZATION with information required that is of greater depth than ever in the past. Face it, the paradigm is the process of great change to focus usage only for those conditions and patients for which there is both efficiacy and safety for that pharmaceutical product. In the Veterans Administration system, there is a vast increase in the utilization of clinical pharmacists for each medical service and clinic to offer a team approach to pharmaceutical care. The days of the doctor acting as an independent authority to utilize drugs as he/she chooses is rapidly coming to a close. Reason: Follow the money, who pays for it.
Carolyn Meece
Supremacy Claus,
The “Off Labeling” of psychiatric drugs with the false labels amounts to “Medical Malpractice” and “Racketeering” along with Insurance Fraud, Medicare Fraud, etc. The records have to be reliable and accurate. The records cannot be defrauded in order to make the ends justify the means.
Crime runs rampant in the so-called mental health industry and so do homicidal activity.
It is illegal to use Mob Action, Mob Mentality, Mob Rules, Kangaroo Court, and the so-called mental health workers, abusers, predators, corrupt officials, Gestapo, etc. acting as Judge, Jury, and Executioner. The state compiled statues have to be obeyed along with the law and the Constitution. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
When the criminal activity goes way back to 1982 involving a child molestation case and insane games up until the present it involves a great amount of information. I wanted to sue for at least a $1 m in 2001, but I could not find a lawyer in which to take my case and I do not have lots of money. It is illegal for abusers, predators, etc. to go “Doctor Shopping” for “Dirt Bag” and “Sleaze Bag” doctors/psychiatrists in order to take complete control and illegally demand that put up with insanity and bald-faced lies. It is not legal for any doctor/psychiatrist to interfere in the testimony or story of a victim/target/witness/”Victim of Violent Crime”.
There are a number of people and survivors upset involving cover-ups, violence, and criminal activity.
The “Burden of Proof” is on the accuser and
he/she/they cannot present a case on a “False Pretense” and show everything in a “False Light” illegally demanding that the victim/target/hostage has to be his/her robot, puppet, or “Zombie”. These hippocrites do say “Justice For All”. “City Hall”
As some will say they use their mind rape psychiatric drugs, their brainwashing drugs, and the potent drugs they claim keep the thoughts together. What goes on in these mental hellholes is exactly the same things that go on outside of them. As I stated at a city meeting, that I feel it is a miracle that I have survived the insanity and lunacy. I am also on videos stating my case involving crime, psychiatrists, etc. and even the media was present. I absolutely refuse to die quietly or go quietly in the middle of the night.
Actually the way psychiatry has been practiced anyone can do the job. Like one doctor stated a 5th grader can learn everything in one week’s time. As they concoct stories, sit and tell their bald-faced lies, make false accusations, apply false labels, harass, intimidate, get irrate, rage, throw tantrums, defraud records, etc. They need to throw away their so-called bible and do an honest days work. The corrupt constantly reports their delusions, psychosis, get paranoid the truth is going to come out or the hostage will talk or get support, “Delusional Type Persecutory Disorder”, counter transfere his/her imperfections off onto the victim/target/hostage, seek revenge at rejection or the truth, illegally support abusers, predators, the violent, etc. It is complete lunacy. Victims/targets/hostages do not have to feel guilty or shame. Many of these people are “Soul Murders” sucking the life, health, breath, feeling, etc. out of good honest people. All the corrupt wants to hear is what they want to hear what amounts to what is in their sick, twisted, and perverted minds in order to make the ends justify the means. All the money in the world is not enough in the soviet-style system. Have you ever paid attention to how many predators are looking for his/her next victim/target? It is time to take bad doctors or psychiatrists, etc. out of the system. For a number of years from time to time, I would puke my guts out.
They cannot give us orders that we cannot talk or that we cannot use any lawyers, etc. The corrupt cannot use people as an example for others to see if he/she should do the same as speaking out, etc. “Perjury” is constantly taking place and many do not have any respect for the law of the land. That also includes a number of psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are not experts and have been know to report their delusions in a court of law.
Cruel, inhumane, degrading treatment, punishment, abuse, and forms of torture are illegal anywhere in the world. I do not have any use for people who molest and rape little girls, boys, or women. It is the system that is raping the rape victims. Mind rape is worse than the body being raped. I also had a corrupt lawyer who was plotting and scheming who said to me “There is nothing wrong with showing your love to a child. It is Ok” (sick and puking”. He and his gang also keep illegally entering and searching my home and hurt my beloved beautiful pet Samoyed. No one wants to talk about “Psychogate” or “Pantygate”, or “Snowygate”. The conspiring lawyer also said to me “I hear when you hear from the Holly Spirit it is really something.” He also said “You will never marry.”
Memories come to the fore front from the sub-conscious mind while we are sleeping. If one is denial of anything then the dreams or nightmares confirm everything. My nightmares have revealed those who have tried or want to kill me in cold-blood. The corrupt cannot manufacture evidence. I can only look at the beds in the so-called mental health industry as death beds. The talk about lifetime plans involving fake illnesses. The sickness is their own and a victim/target/hostage does not have to own it. Their main object is to drain the insurance polices and milk everything for what they think it is worth. Then to also extort or “Emotional Blackmail” the victim/target/hostage if he/she is stupid enough to pay for the insanity, criminal and homicidal activity. They commit felony after felony and are rarely ever prosecuted. I stated that if the corrupt, conspiring, and homidical did not leave me alone that I would not only go public, but I would go national and sue. Many of us are fed up with the shaddow and corrupt government that we have that is run by a bunch of thugs.
It is not the truth they are after. As victims/targets/survivors have to do all the hard work in putting his/her lives and health back together the corrupt, conspiring, homidical illegally demand that they should receive credit when all they did was use fear, terror, intimidation, harassment, insanity, and violence and destroy. They use Birthdays, Holidays, the same month same day different year is involved, the number 13 can be involved in some way, etc. It all illuminates.
As sociopath he/she always thinks he/she know the right things to say and do. Their actions do not match their words. There is always a new reason why one must be kidnapped, held hostage, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with one having any real illness. It has everything to do with milking the insurance companies, the taxpayers, or the victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime” for every cent they an muster. “Trauma-based Mind Control”, “The Battle for the Mind”
“Murder in the First”, “CRY_WOLF”
Once one has been on the verge of death nothing else matters. What one is forced to deal with is complete tyranny. We know inside jobs when we see them. When you turn the rocks over, little critters scramble all over the place. Sometimes they talk, sometimes they don’t.
What one has in the so-called mental health industry is the pot calling the kettle black.
A “Red Herring” is a deversion, something meant to distract you from the real issue. There are “Red Flags” all over the place. I have learned when something is breaking loose to look behind the scenes to see what else is taking place. The brain is designed to tell people when danger is near, etc. Everything I learned. I learned in kindergarten or from my dog. Did you ever notice how when dogs sense danger or someone around in the middle of the night that does not belong? They give out the call of the wild. From one dog to another dog. “What Cops Know” and now survivors know “What Cops Know”.
As one lady who heard me speak on the radio stated that my story would make an excellent movie. Illegal forced drugging amounts to cold-blooded murder. One can say that many in the so-called mental health industry suffer from a “Grandiose Sense of Purpose”. It is all about me,me,me, I, I,I, MeItis, My Way,CYA.
Carolyn Meece
Pharma/Pharmacist
I agree with you. It is very interesting to follow the money trail or watch who covers for whom, who works together, etc. All the money that is given to congress and what the drug companies are paying to the psychiatric drug pushers, etc. How a number of psychiatrists try to con congress on how important they are in society, etc. and in passing laws in giving them more control. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. They and abusers will concoct stories in order to present false emergencies in order to have complete control. They feel they can stop victims/targets/hostages at every turn and when he/she overcomes one hurdle they feel they can throw another hurdle in the way. “Hit and Run”
“Confessions of a Drug Rep.”
I have even read where some insurance companies were checking up on some psychiatrists and making them pay mega bucks back. The corrupt psychiatrists feel they should not have to answer anyone. It is the system that is raping the rape victims and killing people. They are merciless people and absolutely refuse to show any mercy. People are like objects to them to be used and discarded.
Thank you for standing up for what is right and speaking the truth. It would really be nice if there was a class action lawsuit for survivors who have been forced to illegally suffer great atrocities. These corrupt psychiatrists should end up penniless and homeless. One can see by the smirks they have on their faces that they get great enjoyment by inflicting pain and suffering off onto others and sadistic acts.
Much of psychiatry is the darkside of medicine. In fact it is Pseudo-Science, Quackery, mad doctoring, con game, fake healing, sham, etc. They cannot pass the smell test. In order to predict something, first they have to commit a crime.
truthman30
“Much of psychiatry is the darkside of medicine. In fact it is Pseudo-Science, Quackery, mad doctoring, con game, fake healing, sham, etc. They cannot pass the smell test. In order to predict something, first they have to commit a crime.”
I agree with you Carolyn, psychiatry is a disease of society…
They target people with mental problems because people with mental problems and difficulties are the easiest to disempower, disable , exploit , abuse and drug to death…
Has anyone ever met a psychiatrist with a soul? ..
I know of very few, Breggin, Corry, Glenmullen and Healy spring to mind..
But they are the exceptions to the rule..
Some psychiatrists are genuinely misguided but …
Most of them have deep rooted neurosis , sadistic and sociopath tendencies , thats why they get they into the “cult” in the first place….
They are the real SICKO’S …
Carolyn Meece
Truthman30, thank you, you are right on.
What we see is that those into the “Off Label” of psychiatric drugs are a complete plague on our communities. Absolutely no one should have to beg another for him/her life. They need their “Zombie” so he/she/they can screw us with our own health insurance and own money. Only they misjudged me and I absolutely refuse to enter into extortion, “Emotional Blackmail”, their “Racketeering”, Insurance Fraud, Criminal Enterprise, Money Laundering, lying to myself and others and for others. It is a devasating soul-crushing experience. What we have is the pot calling the kettle black.
Isn’t the “Thought Reform” that Nathan uses go under “Conspiracy Theory” and “Catch22″ phrases?
Many of the officials, those into government, Gestapo, docors/psychiatrists, some judges, etc. have gone from protecting our community to a plague on our community.
As I watched “The Last Unicorn” and the red raging bull in the video. It brings back many nightmare memories involving the corrupt in all walks of life, abusers, predators, perpetrators, our so-called government, doctors/psychiatrists. As the lady in our
Attorney General’s Office state these kidnappers, hostage takers, those into “Off Label Drugging” and homicidal activity cannot be prosecuted. There is absolutely no one above the law. It is time to throw these people out of office because they are not doing their duty under the law. As we state our cases in a positive, honest, and forth-right manner they do not feel that we will be believed. The law states “Justice for All”.
“Off Label” drugging goes under
“Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy”, Hero Syndrome, and “False Memory”. It is coming up with fake illnesses, false accusations, and the use of insanity in which to try to look like a hero. It gets into “Serial Killer” depending on how many people have died involving his/her/their insanity.
I was asked by one in the so-called mental health industry who is filled with her own demons “Do you see things before they happen?” They were illegally demanding control and authority in a case that did not exist. Demanding to illegally drug, false emergency, false confessions, homicidal activity, kidnapping, etc. Everything existed in their own sick,twisted, and perverted minds of those involved in the “Conspiracy Theory” They suffer also from “Hero Syndrome” and are a real plague to society. Red Flags are all over the place.
Right-wing Stalingrad - they have to destroy in order to save.
What I saw years ago and what some of those involved in the Nazi Death Camps see in the past few years and today is that what put Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mus, and all the evil dictators into power is taking place right here. “Joseph Stalin, Red Terror”
I have studied Thought Reform, mind control, brainwashing, etc. “Brainwashing, From Pavlov to Power”, “Battle for the Mind”, How to Break Them Down”, “Satan’s School for Girls”, why don’t they go out and buy a rat? (it involves the cover-up of murder under suicide and the study of rats).
“Leap of Faith”, etc. Much of psychiatry works the same as destructive cults work. Much of psychiatry is a destructive cult. They look for what they feel is the weakest link and they do everything illegally and the cowards way. They are accidents waiting to happen. They are rarely ever prosecuted for their “Unspeakable Crimes Against Humanity”. Victims/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime,and survivors are entitled to be compensated for the “Unspeakable Crimes Against Humanity” they were illegally forced to endure.
In the story of the “Three Little Pigs” there were no glasshouses or did the wolf live in the glass house? I was told that if you do not know what do not throw stones at people who lives in glasshouses meeans that they can put you away. I also more or less told this person that people who live in glasshouses should not be throwing stones. Beauty is like a glass rose. One false move and glass shatters.
“CRY_wOLF”,
All they care about are perks, kickbacks, and profits. They are illegally making monsters out of good and honest people. They are putting profits above the well being of others.
“Off Labeling” and forced drugging amounts to Assault and Battery, Assault with a deadly weapon, CYA, blueprint for enslavement, premedited murder, solicitation to commit murder, murder for hire, suicidal pawns, contract for murder, hellish tyranny, and they are complete losers no matter which way one looks at the “Conspiracy Theory”. It is als insurance fraud, Medicare Fraud, and Medicaid Fraud.
As the corrupt, predators, abusers, and those into “Off Label” psychiatric drugging act like they are the victim. They are deffinitely the villians.
They illegally demand to be able to commit “The Ultimate Identity Theft” and while they feel they are illegally entitled to good lives the corrupt and conspiring illegally demand to rob others and taxpayers of his/her entire life of whatever they are rightfully entitled to. It is time for them to pay their dues to society and pay back every cent they have gotten with their rotten and destructive deeds.
Carolyn Meece
The Savage Truth
Survivors are very happy to say that
US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald took Elizabeth Loftus to task involving her not so scientific work, inflated figures, and books. He even pointed out how she was dishonest. I understand she tries to BS survivors about “False Memory”. Elizabeth Loftus is a critic of repressed memory, which is when victims during therapy sometimes remember horrible events they mentally had sealed off. Psychiatry is the most useless, delusional, psychotic, paranoia, and deadly form of medicine that their is. Many psychiatrists and those in the so-called mental health industry suffer from “Delusional Type Persecutory Disorder” and ask some of the most cuckoo questions that normal people would not ask.
If the knowledge it takes to commit the crime is the knowledge it takes to solve it. Then the only way to stop the crises is to find the “Point of Origin”. One has to learn how to be an investigator with a sixth sense. It is more than a tabloid paranoia and “Primal Fear”. I really do not know how these peole involved in my Ritual Abuse, “Soviet-style Psychiatric Terrorism”, Trauma Based Mind Control, Suicidal Ideology, or Suicidal Programming thought they could argue a case that did not exist in reality. The defrauding of records invoves plotting, scheming, off label drugging, violations of Constitutional Rights, etc. in order to try to make it look like the money was coming from legitimate sources.
For those in our governent, it is their duty to report human rights violations to the US Civil Rights Commission, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights of the Organization of American States, and the UN Human Rights Committee. It is everyone’s duty to obey the Constitution, the law of nations, and the laws of the United States. “The False Claims Act” prevents one from turning in fraudulent records to what is supposed to be the people’s government. I even heard “I work for the state of Illinois. I can do whatever I want.” My supporters and I were told by a corrupt so-called conspiring nurse that it would be her word against my supporter. She also absolutely refused to allow us to see her defrauded records and falsely represented herself. These records are subjected to “Perjury” because they are supposed to be sworn statements. What we see are “Catch22″ phrases when these people know they are knowingly stating bald-faced lies. They brag about how they are untouchable. So did those who were involved in the Nazi Death Camps and “Nuremberg Trials” think they were untouchable.”
We should not forget history because it has a habit of repeating itself. What we see is mayhem, violence, homicide, imaginary heroes, total contempt for our memory and the law, Dooms Day 2 Program, Refusal to address our needs, Psyops, the reeking of havoc, all the reason why their concocted story or “Conspiracy Theory” could never hold up. It is the absolute refusal to go after abusers, predators, child molesters, rapists, corrupt, criminals, etc. What we see is the engineered collapse of our cities, states, country, and society. We don’t need no Thought Control.
They are so hateful and arrogent shoveling their BS on the public and survivors demanding to illegally use us as human guinea. It amounts to civil disobedience.
As the corrupt try to tell us that we have to pay for the criminal and homicidal activity and brainwashing. That we have to go along with whatever they say and to shut up and they will do all the talking, controlling, etc. I refuse to lie down and die as a coward or go quitely in the night. One lady heard me over the radio and stated that my story would make a good movie. Personally I thought that it would make a good Ann Rule murder mystery whent they do carry out their cold-blooded murder. A cop said that he heard me and told me to keep speaking out. It appears that some cops or detectives act as “Double Agents”.
“In the Corner of His Eye”, always having to look over his/her shoulder to see if anyone is watching. Always having to kill one more time. “Someone to watch over me”
What we see is the raping of children and otehrs as they beg for mercy. They believe they are strong because they have no conscious. They are the absolute scum of the earth. They illegally demand that we cannot control our own destinies. “A Taxing Woman’s Return”, “Salt of the Earth”
A storyteller is a person who tells a story and hopes the victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime” does not have a good memory. They are blood-thirsty spooks. “Off labeling” amounts to questionable care, that complicated our own health. It is very criminal, deadly, and cold-blooded murder. The corrupt demands to create confusion before they murder illegally deamnding to close off any escape route while they endoy their sadistic activity. It is all blatantly obvious. Especially when one sees the smirks on their faces. I have always seen things for what they are.
Many psychiatrists, so-called mental health workers, Gestapo, corrupt officials, etc. reveal himself/herself to be something of a dangerous madman. They lack in brains and backbone shaking down victims/targets/”Vicitms of violent Crime. One can see they work together involving health insurance, fraud,homicide, etc. They illegally demand that we cannot stop the abuse, violence, forms of torture, homicidal activity, racketeering, money laudering, etc. In order to CYA they illegally demand that we should stay in controlled groups, settings, etc, “Off labeling of the evil killer psychiatric drugs, etc.
It is a “Ponzi Scheme” created by the demonic. They need us worse than we need them.
“Girl Interrupted”, “Dancing in the Dark”, “Ant Island”
Unveiling them and ripping off masks. As they claim to know us and everything about us. They tell bald-faced lies and feel they can rip off insurance companies, taxpayers, etc. for every cent they can muster involving their criminal activity, the criminal activity of others, and what is their own insanity and sickness. It is all straight out of Nazi Germany. What they do is feel they can play people against one another for enslavement and control. “False Memory”. “I can do anything through God who strengthens me.”
How to freak out a vicious, backstabbing, corrupt, deadly, homidical, “off-labeling”, etc. doctor/psychiatrist. It appears like they only have peapod brains. Any moral famile would have stepped up to the plate only my family is dysfunctional and Mommie Dearest is a sociopath/psychopath along with the doctor/psychiatrists. She did state “Yes, they were in your home and admitted that she said it.” Mommie Dearest went “Doctor Shopping” for a “Dirt Bag” and “Sleaze Bag” doctor/psychiatrist in which to carry out her homicial agenda. When there is power going on someone is always illegally demanding to get a leg up.
What one does is to write down what happens to you, and more importantly how you feel about that. There is something about documenting your life that makes you feel present, able,a and motivated. The pros and cons about any relationship. When the cons outweight the pros it is time to move on. “Say Goodby to Mom and Dad and You Say Goodbye to Abuse.”, “Safe Passages to Healing”, I cried a bucket of tears working on abuse issues.
By creating the perfect child the therapist could repair his/how own childlessness and her/his own imprerfections. He/she would become a new person, a version of himself/herself the others couldn’t have rejected. Thus, the truama and pain of the past would be redressed. Rejection makes him/her furious and he/she seeks revenge and enters into violence. This has to do with anyone who looks at other as his/her children in which to be used and conrolled. I’m a “No Bullshit Person”. Let’s not play fantasy games of Cinderella. Certainly on my ticket.
Orwellian
The Fall of Ted Haggard - “If you have read the books that I have read and know the people that I know. Then you would be great like me.”
Instead of forcing their own issues onto being my issues, accept the responsibility and just maybe we will get along once and for all. We have the right to Freedom, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Mirror, Mirror on the wall.
Hospitals are supposed to make people well, not sicker, or kill them in cold-blood.
“Off Label” drugging amounts to “OVERKILL”.
The proper function of any treatment institution is to provide a warm, disciplined atmosphere in terms of responsibility. Institutions which do not do so, whether they bear the label of hospital or reform shool are only prisons.
Carolyn Meece
I Carolyn Meece, oppose euthanasia and do not want so-called “physician aid in dying”. Including if I am kidnapped, abducted, or held hostage by any psychiatrist or so-called hospital. Promoting a drug for purposes other than those approved by the FDA is illegal.
******************
“Off Labeling” amounts to Hostile Take Over.
It is they who need “Anger Management” in which to direct their anger in more appropriate ways.
I’m trying to see thngs from their ‘Point of View” but I can’t stick my head that far up my a**. From the mountain top one can see the entire view.
What one sees in “Off Labeling” is that the infliction of “Stockholm Syndrome”, “Hero Syndrome”, “Zombie”, etc. go hand in hand. Unelss one meets their narcissistic wants and needs they absolutely will refuse to meet your medical needs and then defraud records.
“Off Label” of evil killer psychiatric drugs amounts to:
Conspiracy/ “Malignant Self Love Narcissism Revisited/ Hysterical/ Intermittnet Explosive Disorder/ Hostile Take Over/ Psychopath
Carolyn Meece
Again Bush lied and twists and turns things in order to promote his own agendas. At first the article about the “long-term study needed involving Michael F. Hogan, Director, Ohio Department of Mental Health appeared
Sunday’s Forum article on mental-healthscreening (”Bush’s Brave New World,” Commentary) mistates the findings of the president’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, which he chaired. The commission did not call for mandatory universal mental-health screening for all children. I am at a loss to explain why this misrepresentation persists, since it is at odds with the plain language of our report to the president.
I want to be clear that the commission did not recommend mandatory medication treatment for children and teens.
and so-forth
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041020-092931-2216r.htm (could not find it on the web any longer)
http://goliath ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1396087/Long-term-study-needed-LETTERS.html
Carolyn Meece
Supremacy Claus
I remember reading about a doctor who was doing seminars and promoting drugs for “Off Label” purposes. He was Indicted for promoting psychiatric drugs for other purposes than what the FDA recommended them for.
“Off Label amounts to “Chemical Warfare on Humans”. They are illegally used for “must win at all costs” even if it means the death of a good American citizen and an innocent victim/target. It is also about higher kickbacks by greedy people and putting profits above the lives of human beings.
“Off Label”, it gets very volitale, abuse of power, abuse of trust. It is the illegal demand that victims/targets/”Victims of Violent Crime” are going to bail abusers, predators, perpetrators, corrupt officials, corrupt psychiatrists, so-called mental health workers, etc. out involving their crimes, abuse, forms of torture, insanity, homicidal activity, etc. It is creating a crises in order to promote agendas, etc. Thuggery, Sadomasochistic activity, Finanical Terrorism, Black Hole
“Off Label” - Red Herring, scapegoat, blame everything on the people, cover-ups, unspeakably corrupt and wicked. Goes beyond stealing. An Utopian program and it is crazy.
Death on a mass scale, Blueprint for Enslavement, counter transference, pot calling the kettle black,crime infested hellholes, big time corruption, “Enterprise Corruption”
One can see the abusers, predators, corrupt psychiatrists, Gestapo, corrupt officials are always in a crises. “What Cops Know”
Plan A, Plan B, maybe Plan C - then spin like hell back and forth - they are hard core killers. As they wage psychological warfare, destruction, and death they do not have any peace plan. They are arrogant know-it all idiots. Chemical Lobotomy, It is never about the victim/target/hostage.
All a victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime” has to do is to return to the scene of the crime either mentally or physically and recall sets in.
“Off Label” puts people into eminent danger.
Neglect- failure to protect people from potential harm. Records are full of gossip, Pete & Repeat. It is a very violent and very serious form of bullying.
Haldol (haloperidol) is an old 1960s-era drug similar to Thorazine that I hear they are using again. According to Amnesty International’s 1976 book “Prisoners of Conscience in the USSR,” Haldol was routinely used to torture dissidents in soviet psychiatric prisons.
“To Clear Your Thoughts” - control- knockout drugs - psychological warfare - “premeditated murder” - illegal demand to be able to rob you of your ability to think - oppressed, disempowered, retaliation by abusers, Conspiracy Theory, illegal demand to cover up crimes,
There can never be a justification for putting a victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime”/hostage in a chemical straightjacket.
Force is violence, force does not lead to healing, or to recovery, or even well-being.
It is all about the abusers, predators, corrupt, etc. illegally demanding to be able to control and “False Memory”. It is also about perks, kickback, and Insurance fraud. It is putting a good Americal citizen’s health and life in great danger. If it isn’t voluntary, it isn’t treatment. Besides the word treatment is an indoctrination term. The psychiatric druggers are the Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
There is no straightforward evidence to prove that psychological ailments are biological diseases. Without a real disease to cure, arguments in favor of psychaitric drugs holds no water. One cannot call forced psychiatic drugging medication. Neither is there any such thing as a “chemical imbalance”. When one wants a record of abuse, the bald-faced liars try to tell one he/she has a “Chemical Imbalance”.
http://www.afafa.org - “Break Them Down”: The Systematic Use of Psychological Torture by US Forces. - 135 pages (if it is still there)
“Off Label” The Buck Stops Here
“Legalizing Mind Control”-prevention- implies a continual program of assessing, monitoring, and molding every mind.
“How to Become a Schizophrenia”
So-called Guardianship Lawyer- “Off Label” amounts to “Breach of Fiduciary Duty”. The law forbids the fiduciary from acting in any manner adverse or contrary to the interests of the client.
Carolyn Meece
“Off Label” - the illegal demand to be able to charge and imprison victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime”/hostage for things they did only in someone’s delusional, sick, twisted, and perverted minds, “Delusional Persecutory Type Disorder” mind, paranoia, psychotic, and so forth. One can see that the corrupt feel that if it’s done right, you’ll never know how it was done, or who did it for sure. That’s what professionalism is all about. That is why the corrupt and abusers give the victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime” information and then illegally demand to extract a false confession. That is also even why one into “Premeditated Murder” and
“Off Label” drugging will try to get away with saying that one is suicidal.
“Letter to My Killers”, “Continued Reality Report”. One cannot solve a problem using the same mindset that has created the problems.
“Off Label”
“Plantation Mentality”, What we see is a class of people who have arranged the world for its own benefit. The momement you realize someone else has been writing your story. It’s time you took the pen from his/her hand and start writing it yourself.
webmaster
it is about time, of course….
dry skin
i agree caroly,
“The momement you realize someone else has been writing your story. It’s time you took the pen from his/her hand and start writing it yourself.”
it is completely true!…
webmaster forumu
im teacher,we receive teaching certificate not about medical..
bid directory
Psychiatry is a disease of society… that target people with mental problems because people with mental problems and difficulties are the easiest to disempower, disable , exploit , abuse and drug to death…
akif
it is about time, of course…;)