Comments on: Hot Flash: Acupuncture Beats Drugs For Menopause http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/ News, Comment and Conversation Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:22:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Don http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-391675 Don Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:08:40 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-391675 It's interesting that when acupuncture works for this ailment or that, it's often attributed to the placebo effect. Maybe that's part of it; people often feel better the day they visit their MD, or for a day or 2 after visiting their MD. That's placebo effect, too. Also, acupuncture works well on animals and children. How does the placebo effect explain that? The human body is very complicated. It is dangerous to assume that one approach to helping the body heal is better than another. Perhaps both acupuncture (i.e., Chinese Medicine) combined with western medicine, will create the optimum outcome. It’s interesting that when acupuncture works for this ailment or that, it’s often attributed to the placebo effect. Maybe that’s part of it; people often feel better the day they visit their MD, or for a day or 2 after visiting their MD. That’s placebo effect, too. Also, acupuncture works well on animals and children. How does the placebo effect explain that?

The human body is very complicated. It is dangerous to assume that one approach to helping the body heal is better than another. Perhaps both acupuncture (i.e., Chinese Medicine) combined with western medicine, will create the optimum outcome.

]]> By: Orac http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375358 Orac Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:59:44 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375358 This study is utter crap. It's not blinded, and it relies solely on self-reporting. It's utterly worthless. I hate to see the Susan J. Komen Foundation wasting its money on this sort of fluff. As for the issue of blinding, there are sham acupuncture needles that appear to enter the skin but do not. They are very convincing to patients and one variety can even fool practitioners. There is also "sham" acupuncture in which the needles are placed in the "wrong" locations (i.e., not along the so-called "meridians" where the qi flow needs to be unblocked). In fact, many studies have shown that there is no difference between this latter form of sham acupuncture and "real" acupuncture. Zero. Indeed, one study showed "sham" acupuncture to be better. No, any acupuncture study without a sham control group is utterly worthless. Any acupuncture study. This one included. This study is utter crap. It’s not blinded, and it relies solely on self-reporting. It’s utterly worthless. I hate to see the Susan J. Komen Foundation wasting its money on this sort of fluff.

As for the issue of blinding, there are sham acupuncture needles that appear to enter the skin but do not. They are very convincing to patients and one variety can even fool practitioners. There is also “sham” acupuncture in which the needles are placed in the “wrong” locations (i.e., not along the so-called “meridians” where the qi flow needs to be unblocked). In fact, many studies have shown that there is no difference between this latter form of sham acupuncture and “real” acupuncture. Zero. Indeed, one study showed “sham” acupuncture to be better.

No, any acupuncture study without a sham control group is utterly worthless. Any acupuncture study. This one included.

]]> By: Marilyn Mann http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375336 Marilyn Mann Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:54:21 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375336 What they were really doing in this study is comparing Effexor with acupuncture. That the acupuncture group did better doesn't really tell us whether acupuncture helps with menopausal symptoms as compared to doing nothing. For one thing, I suspect that Effexor is not all that effective for menopausal symptoms, and there are those pesky side effects, including sexual dysfunction. Plus the study was too small to show anything definitive. I'm not against people trying acupuncture if they want to. I'm just not sure it has any real effect that is not a placebo effect. What they were really doing in this study is comparing Effexor with acupuncture. That the acupuncture group did better doesn’t really tell us whether acupuncture helps with menopausal symptoms as compared to doing nothing. For one thing, I suspect that Effexor is not all that effective for menopausal symptoms, and there are those pesky side effects, including sexual dysfunction. Plus the study was too small to show anything definitive.

I’m not against people trying acupuncture if they want to. I’m just not sure it has any real effect that is not a placebo effect.

]]> By: Dutch http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375275 Dutch Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:08:32 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375275 I understand that acupuncture needles need to be placed in specific locations relating to energy flows. One could put "control needles" outside of these locations, right? I understand that acupuncture needles need to be placed in specific locations relating to energy flows. One could put “control needles” outside of these locations, right?

]]> By: laurie http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375264 laurie Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:26:56 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375264 "Jack2, to be fair, how would you run a blinding study for acupuncture? There really isn’t a “placebo” you could give, is there?" roflmao!!! Yeah, those needles are hard to not notice!! Thanks Nathan, I needed that laugh this morning. “Jack2, to be fair, how would you run a blinding study for acupuncture? There really isn’t a “placebo” you could give, is there?”

roflmao!!! Yeah, those needles are hard to not notice!! Thanks Nathan, I needed that laugh this morning.

]]> By: Claire http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375259 Claire Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:00:10 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375259 @ Nathan, "sham acupuncture" has been used in several trial, e.g. here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504101520.htm @ Nathan, “sham acupuncture” has been used in several trial, e.g. here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504101520.htm

]]> By: Nathan http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375146 Nathan Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:57:51 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375146 Jack2, to be fair, how would you run a blinding study for acupuncture? There really isn't a "placebo" you could give, is there? Jack2, to be fair, how would you run a blinding study for acupuncture? There really isn’t a “placebo” you could give, is there?

]]> By: Jack2 http://www.pharmalot.com/2008/09/hot-flash-acupuncture-beats-drugs-for-menopause/#comment-375117 Jack2 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:02:45 +0000 http://www.pharmalot.com/?p=15804#comment-375117 If acupuncture was a "drug" and it was applying for approval it would not get it because there was no blinding in this study. If acupuncture was a “drug” and it was applying for approval it would not get it because there was no blinding in this study.

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