NJ Informed Consent Bill Stymied By Senator
102 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // October 15th, 2008 // 8:18 am
Three years ago, the FDA required makers of antidepressants to supply Med Guides along with their pills. That wasn’t good enough for a couple of New Jersey moms, who have been pushing their state legislature to go further - a bill requiring a doctor or nurse to obtain informed consent from a minor’s parent before writing a prescription for any psychotropic that already carries a Black Box warning.
In fact, thanks to their urgings, a bill has been kicking around the state legislature for nearly two years and passed the assembly. However, the state senator who heads the Senate health committee, Joe Vitale, has repeatedly failed to schedule the bill for a vote (here’s the bill and the assembly version). Last fall, he told us the bill would move forward, but it never did. And Vitale has failed to schedule the bill for a vote tomorrow, when the committee will hold its next meeting.
His opposition has frustrated the bill’s sponsor, State Senator Shirley Turner. “When there are serious or severe side effects with some of the medicines being prescribed, a parent has the right to know what those side effects may be. Many times you get literature with the medication that describes possible side effects, but sometimes people don’t read them. This would be an extra precautionary step,” she tells us. “Information is power and we need to empower parents with all available information when it comes to drug prescriptions for their children.”
One of the moms is, not surprisingly, upset. “This bill is about ensuring that parents or guardians, who are the primary monitors of a child’s reaction to this category of drugs, have the information provided by the FDA ‘Black Box’ warning,” says Laurie Yorke, who also happens to be a nurse. “They need to be aware that problematic behavior may be directly related to the drugs use.”
For his part, Vitale refuses to come to the phone to explain his decision. Do contributions from drugmakers have anything to do with it? Vitale gets money from lots of sources, so you can speculate yourself by gazing at his lists of contributors. Meanwhile, what do you think?
Is Informed Consent A Good Idea?
- Yes (95%, 396 Votes)
- No (5%, 23 Votes)
Total Voters: 419
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Perry
Of course informed consent is a good idea.
Consumers should honestly be informed.
Why is there really any need to discuss this?
Stephanie
Its all about the money!
Jason
Parents are generally uneducated monkeys.
They should do as we say and not question us. We are the trained medical professionals. They are not.
Sure, there are some drugs that can cause various adverse effects but it is enough for us professionals to be aware of this.
Parents pay us for our professional medical advice and they should let us do our jobs and not meddle with this type of legislation
laurie
Jason, if those in the medical profession were doing their job this bill wouldn’t be necessary….sadly your attitude is the reason that it is critically important. The “take this pill and shut up” days are gone.
Sandra
Parents need to pay more attention to their kids ( until age 18), in order to reinforce each child weakness. School, psicologist, psychotherapist, mental workers and physician need to give the best objestive diagnosis and treatment to help the chid and the family, and no to their pockets or to the institutions were they work. A lot of people parents and proffesionals are doing great job, but others are very behind, affecting our childrens. The call is for everybody, specially for the one around kids. Least drugs and more counselling and work group in the school and no in mental institutions.
Jason
Those days are not gone. Those days are what we medical professionals are living each day now.
We are the ones that are educated in the area. Not legislators. No one should be telling us what we need to inform our patients.
We inform or not inform based on our own education. Some patients would never take any drugs if they were aware of all the possible side effects.
Sue
The information that would be required in the informed consent is already supplied to patients with the Rx. Do we really need legislation to force people to read it?
If so, why just psychotropics? What about other drugs that have Black Box warnings (like some antibiotics)? Why just for minors, why not for adult patients as well?
Isn’t it enough that the “Black Box” was created for the specific purpose of calling physician and patient attention to the risks? Is it not prominent enough? Maybe it should just be bolder, or in larger font, or maybe red font?
Seriously, do we really need to mandate that people read the information they’re given?
john
It is my body my mind my money!! I want to know.Not to hard to figure someone is trying to hide something.
James
The side effects of psychotropic drugs are very serious and sometimes life-threatening. The pharmaceutical companies have been less than forthcoming, as evidenced by the recent Zyprexa lawsuits.
Children as young as 6 months are being medicated after being diagnosed as “Bi-polar”, thanks largely to the efforts of several Harvard physicians (e.g., Dr. J. Biederman), who have been recently cited for ethics violations due to their undisclosed pharmaceutical funding. These drugs are not even FDA-approved for children.
The drug companies seem to have every advantage that money can buy. This law is a small step in the right direction.
Highlander
[1] Anyone —most especially medical professionals— who thinks that a select group of individuals should operate without oversight, is engaging in nothing less than arrogant deceit.
[2] To presume to say that a mind-altering drug will solve a problem, when historically it has been shown that NO SUCH THING is true, and thence declare that oversight isn’t necessary when in fact had oversight played a part all along, then likely it is that virtually NONE of the recent mass shootings would have taken place.
[3] Anyone whom is afraid of oversight —especially medical professionals— is practicing ARROGANT DECEIT, and is very likely in the hip pocket of the pharmaceutical industry.
Barb Huning
Informed consent is not just “a good idea”. Informed consent is a critical right. Every potential consumer of pharmaceuticals has a right to know about risks as well as potential benefits of treatments. Consumers also have a right to correct and accurate research data. We already know from the mountainous litigation raining down on pharmaceutical companies that rigged and distorted research has become part of standard operating procedure for these companies. Americans now find ourselves having to fight for rights which are closely protected in some other industries but which have unraveled under current FDA practices. Now, finally, our voices are being heard by Congress.
I am a 25-year veteran psychologist and I am appalled by the damage that has been done to my clients because of these dangerous and unethical practices. I do everything I can, every day I can, to help to turn this situation around.
Andrea
Everyone but Sue has overlooked that the information is already provided to the patient. Informed consent is not going to provide anymore information than is already given. I am not saying that I am against informed consent, but if parents are claiming that they care about side effects of drugs, why aren’t they reading the information already available?
Doyle
Absolutely informed consent is a MUST, definitely for psychotropic drugs, if not for all.
Medicine is and has been for a very long time, a respected institution. You go to your family doctor and you trust that he will give you a proper examination and deliver a remedy that will probably work but at minimum is safe.
Psychiatry and the psycho-pharmaceutical industry have taken this trust we had for medical professionals and “borrowed” it, you might say, by pretending to be medical professionals. Now a person goes to see a psychiatrist or even his family doctor and may be given a powerful drug, with dangerous and deadly adverse effects for a condition that cannot be even proven to exist.
The public must be well informed so that they can make the correct decisions. Drug company profit may suffer but patients will benefit.
Ann Blake-Tracy, PhD
To Sue and Andrea I would point out that although the Black Box Warning information SHOULD be given out with these drugs they generally are not and have not been given out since first given by the FDA. I continue to receive report after report of one antidepressant-induced suicide after another antidepressant-induced suicide where there was NO WARNING given whatsoever with their medication.
As for Jason, I am shocked anyone believes you are a real person or serious about what you are saying. I thought surely your post was clearly a tongue in cheek sick joke - maybe not? Amazing! If not, someone needs to check your own personal medication levels because something has obviously numbed you to any level of human caring!
Ann Blake-Tracy, PhD, Executive Director,
International Coalition for Drug Awareness
http://www.drugawareness.org & http://www.ssristories.com
Charlie Parker
It is obvious where Joe Vitale got his campaign money - from the pharmaceutical companies! They now own him and he is just their puppet.
Angelia
Of course informed consent is a great idea! How does Joe Vitale sleep at night? Does he not have any morals? These people in Washington better start looking out for “the people” because more and more people are fed up with the greed, lies and deceit in Washington and are watching what their State Representatives are doing.
Merrik Levetan
The idea that the doctor is an educated professional is fair but misleading. They are sadly sometimes overworked and certainly overwhelmed with information. In fact they rely on pharmaceutical reps and medical journals for their “education”.
I have heard from a pharmaceutical rep who finally couldn’t take the tricks and deceptions that were part of her industry’s trade. And as for the medical journals just look at the money that the pharmaceutical companies throw at them. “The two lead general medical journals in the United States—the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association—receive about $18 million and $27 million each year, respectively, for display advertisements…” See the article at http://www.slate.com/id/2173652/.
It is vital that parents be educated on these drugs. With all the vast moneys that the pharmaceuticals are throwing around I think that a government mandate is very necessary. Look how long it has taken just to get a black box warning on these dangerous, mind altering drugs.
Elizabeth
The parent, as the ultimate responsible party, is the last line of defense between the child and any potential threat to his well-being. To consider that parents should remain uninformed concerning drug side-effects, on the grounds that they are too stupid to make an intelligent decision, reflects an arrogance that has soaked through the field of allopathic medicine and made it, in direct contradiction to its claims, a very real hazard to many people’s health.
Perry
Parents might appreciate knowing that if their child is prescribed Geodon, for example, that it is not FDA approved for the pediatric population.
You mean some parents didn’t know this? Huh?!
Don’t you think they should be informed their kid is being experimented upon?
Joanne Cali
For the FDA not to publish black-box warnings on dangers of child medications would be treason. They are supposed to protect the American public - so there is absolutely no justification for not properly informing parents and/or caretakers of the serious liabilities of these psychotropic drugs, which are way over the top for treating attention problems. Since when is not paying attention “psychosis”? The name of the drug indicates it is for extreme cases only. Parents must understand the extreme danger engaged in, just to make their child “better behaved” or more “adjusted” to boring teachers in school.
Former pharma Marketing Exec
Oddly enough there are people in this world, including doctors, who do not believe in informed consent. One of the most common reasons is that there is a strong belief among physicians that the patients will not be able to understand the disease, therefore patients should just do as they are told.
The other problem is providing informed consent takes time and time is money.
So, just in case anyone is keeping score, we now have a situation were we could possibly even think about denying the right to informed consent, along with a law preempting us from our constitutional right to be heard in court.
The moral ethics of our society are being totally eroded and it is all in the name of big money. Don’t get sick in the United States of America!
Geesh!
Mary Collins
It is not just a “good idea”.
Too many children have committed suicide, have died, have killed others, (adults, too) from the taking of these drugs.
The absolute and completely stupid about this is: The so-called “symptoms” used as a reson to precsribe various manifeatations can be cured fast, and has been proven to do so. Most of these. Others can take a little longer, but are proven to really help.
Why then would someone use the thing that is a risk, that does not really help, and is so dangerous that many parents are left without their children because they did what they were told by psychiatrists; yet their children died.
Be kind, use the safe and helpful things: education, nutrition, conferences with your teens by a warm and caring adult and medical not psychiatric tests for any medical condition that can be helped by a medical doctor.
Mary Collins
Nathan
I’m very much in favor of informed consent. It’s a protection both to the consumer AND to pharma. However, I couldn’t support this bill for two reasons:
1) It singles out psychotropics. This should apply to ALL drugs with BBWs. Applying it only to psychotropics amounts to a “vendetta” that certain individuals seem to have against manufactures of CNS medications. There are MANY dangerous drugs - not just SSRIs.
2) The mandatory consent only discusses side effects. Any discussion of side effects MUST take place in the context of a discussion of the expected BENIFITS. Only then can a consumer accurately wiegh the risk vrs. benifit.
Debra J King
Shame on you Senator Joe Vitale!
You are just like the rest of the crooks that care nothing for humane life, only your greedy deep pockets. All these horrifying things these drugs do to our children is old news. You know better. Slavery went out a long time ago and permanently disabling & killing our children needs to as well. The information and statistics are out there and have been for a looooooooooooooooong time. And you know better.
You are killing children of the future by doing this. I hope you get what you deserve!
Nathan
Here’s another problem with the bill: Informed consent must be obtained for psychotropics with a “black box warning” REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE BLACK BOX WARNING WAS FOR! For instance, a future psychotropic might be perfectly safe in minors, but it gets a BBW for a peculiar drug-drug interaction. “Informed consent” would still have to be obtained — even though the BBW has nothing to do with minors. This doesn’t make any sense. It seems that the “informed consent” should relate to what the risk population is. For instance, requiring informed consent only when the drug is prescribed in specific VIOLATION of a “black box warning”. I would certainly support this type of wording. The present wording doesn’t make any sense. It’s only purpose is to limit a specific class of drugs for a specific population.
Bill
Informed consent is not only a good idea it is a right. When exactly did the government and subsequently the school system gain the right to raise our children and undermine the parent?
I believe we can all agree that this is all about money. In that light the only way to hurt these people is by affecting their bank accounts. I give everyone who is fighting this good fight all of the credit in the world however the fines being levied against BIG Pharma are a drop in the bucket as compared to the huge profits being taken in the interim. Do you believe that $10 – 20 or 30 million fines hurt these companies? Granted they are indeed moral victories but there is no way that we can beat the Pharmaceutical companies and the FDA using a direct approach.
I believe the best way to attack this issue is by fighting the school systems directly. One of the most effective, and perhaps the most difficult, ways of doing this is to pull your children out of school. Many years ago my sister pulled both of her children out of school here in NJ because they diagnosed my nephew with ADHD and insisted on his being medicated. MY sister wasn’t buying what they were selling and decided to home school both children. This directly effects federal funding of local school districts and the state did everything in its power to try to intimidate my sister. She didn’t budge and won the battle.
If enough people followed suit and removed their children from school until Informed Consent becomes a reality I believe the pressure put on the local school board would cause them, in turn, to pressure local legislators to move on this issue.
Just some food for thought!
bo quino
those type of drugs are what are keeping our kids with the violent behavior.
ErnestR
Informed consent is an absolute must when Black Box label drugs are being prescribed.
Compare what is happening with antipsychotics and antidepressants to what is currently happening on Wall Street. The healthcare public is experiencing a severe betrayal of trust much like the financial public has been betrayed by banks and mortgage companies. We will eventually see a huge collapse in healthcare and especially in mental healthcare as Medicaids and Medicare wake up to the fact that they have been bilked out of billions of dollars by reimbursing unnecessary and experiemental “off-label” prescriptions for antipsychotics to children and seniors to treat ADHD and dimentia.
The vast majority in the medical profession are there to help people, not to sell them drugs for the sake of profit. However they will pay the price for silently allowing psychiatry and their pharmaceutical partners to bankrupt Medicaid and Medicare and experiment on children. As an example, the once-trusted profession of pediatrics has for some time lowered itself to the level of psychiatry in jumping on the bandwagon to chemically manage the behavior of children. Money for even the most vital and ethical areas of healthcare practice is going to severely dry up. It will take a long time to restore the confidence that psychiatry and the drug companies have sacrificed for the sake of profits. The harm that can be done to a child put on antipsychotics can be seen for a lifetime.
People like Senator Joe Vitale, Senator Kennedy and Oregon’s Senator Smith have long records of supporting the pharmaceutical industry at the expense of public safety and need to be voted out of office.
The
CRH
Nathan–your obvious bias towards the pharmaceutical industry has shown itself many, many times over the course of these discussions; but this particular example may be the most biased, and is quite frankly, wrong. Informed consent should be a RIGHT that everyone has to whatever product they are given. This bill should be voted on and passed today. All you are trying to do is posture and delay with this “vendetta” crap. It doesn’t matter that this bill singles out psychotropic medication, it’s a start and will not diminish the pharma industry. In fact, if anything it will make them even stronger. Being transparent is what every pharma company boasts about (although very few actually do this), but by trying to block this bill it only makes the general public take an even more suspicious look. The purpose of this legislation is not to “limit a specific class of drugs for a specific population” (a population, by the way that most of these drugs are not approved for). All this does is give the patients and the patients family information that otherwise may be missed. For anyone that disagrees with informing all parties involved are either not being genuine, or are simply not very bright. And as a background, I too am a medicinal chemist that spent several years working in the pharmaceutical industry researching CNS disorders. I have since left pharma to take an academic research position, again dealing with CNS disorders. I have many great friends and colleagues that do great work and truly are there to help treat/cure these horrible diseases and I will defend their work to the end. However, I’m not an apologist/defendent for the business end of the industry, as you have been many times.
These disorders are very complex and not well understood. Thus, if we as researchers don’t understand the underlying causes of these diseases, should we expect the general public to just go along with what a doctor has to say? In fact, this goes against what the pharma industry has been saying for the past several years with the DTC. Don’t they ask the public to “ask your doctor about the purple pill”. Shouldn’t they also welcome patients asking their doctor about every and all side effects of a particular drug and hence be informed about their decision. I can bet that every executive at all pharma would rather have seen a particular patient choose not to take their drug, rather than deal with a patient that takes the drug and then goes out and does something horrific. Believe me, not all incidences that are reported on are drug induced; but everyone in the industry cringes when an event happens and then the media “links it a drug”; right or wrong, it’s out there. With informed consent, it may not diminish these events; however, the pharma PR gang would have more ammunition to push back and say, ‘hey, the risks were outlined”.
Bill
CRH Informed Consent IS a right as given to us through the Declaration of Independence.
To refresh everyone’s memory:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
Governments derive their “just powers” FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED!
That’s you and I.
Chris
This is vital! Thank you for your work.
Nathan
CRH,
Thanks for your response. You certainly addressed my first issue I raised — but you didn’t touch the second two issues:
1) The mandatory consent only discusses side effects. Any discussion of side effects MUST take place in the context of a discussion of the expected BENIFITS. Only then can a consumer accurately wiegh the risk vrs benifit.
2) The “informed consent” should relate to what the risk population is. For instance, requiring informed consent only when the drug is prescribed in specific VIOLATION of a “black box warning”. This bill doesn’t do that.
Bottom line: This bill has good intentions, but was poorly written and poorly thought-out.
Cass A
It is already established by U.S. Supreme Court that full informed consent is a RIGHT. There are several steps that a physician must take to provide informed consent, according to the Supreme Court decision.
What the psychiatric industry is trying to avoid is having to take the first step of informed consent: telling the person what their DISEASE IS. Since there is NO ACTUAL PHYSICALLY VERIFIABLE DISEASE in any psychiatric “disorder”–although psychiatric problems can be caused by real diseases, such as Lyme disease–any psychiatric “informed consent” for drugging is actually a fraud.
This proposed legislation seeks to codify (put into the law books) the RIGHT already established by the Supreme Court.
It should be supported.
CRH
Sure a true risk vs. benefit discussion should be part of the meeting; however, what the informed consent is getting at is the all too often ignored risk portion. This would require that the risk is elevated in the discussion. I don’t believe that benefits are ignored as many times as the risks are.
Second, I think informed consent is informed consent. One shouldn’t pick and choose when to inform and when not to inform.
Bottom line: regardless of how well the bill was written or thought out, this congressman with the backing of the pharma industry would still not want to take a vote.
brett
Vitale is a part of the minority who don’t want people to know whats there,,,
if you really look into psychs and their technology you’d be appalled at their “products”.
People are lucky to get away from them and still just be the same as they started when they needed some help.
Alot are unlucky and end up worse,zombified even dead. Many are children unfortunately.
GARKO FACTOR
someone needs to stymie his face
or maybe they already did
looks like a pretty sad fellow
i guess that is what happens to a person with any modicum of conscience who sets out to harm his fellow man.
and this guy is doing a lot of harm and needs to be nullified for everybody’s benefit including his own.
peacefully, of course.
keeping our kids out of school for one day as a sort of nationwide strike would totally align with my philosophy outlined at http://thepowerofdoingnothing.com and could be very effective
Michael G.
Senator Vitale should take a good hard look at what voters are saying here.
Wow! 91% are for informed consent!
Thank you Senator Turner!
laurie
“Sure a true risk vs. benefit discussion should be part of the meeting; however, what the informed consent is getting at is the all too often ignored risk portion. This would require that the risk is elevated in the discussion. I don’t believe that benefits are ignored as many times as the risks are.”
Well put. If the doctor believed that a drug had no benefit the discussion wouldn’t be happening at all. Historically “benefit” discussions are not the problem.
Witholding known medical information regarding a drugs risk for the sake of compliance is never ethical.
“The “informed consent” should relate to what the risk population is. For instance, requiring informed consent only when the drug is prescribed in specific VIOLATION of a “black box warning”. This bill doesn’t do that”
Black box warnings can’t be “violated”. How does one “violate” a suicide warning? Now, if you want to highlight the off label status of the majority of the drugs contained in this bill, I have no problem with that.:) But we all know that will never happen.
This bill at least covers the minimum that should be addressed with a caretaker.
Ana
This is very imporant. Thanks for your concern.
Meg
It is good to see the New Jersey Moms at work again, but not surprising that a state legislator is stalling on “informed consent”. The only consolation I see is that there are some protections in place already, even if they are wrongly used or not used. A black box for the SSRIs for those under eighteen as well as a Medguide is 100% ahead of where the atypical antipsychotics are. There are no medguides for any of the atypicals and the only black box is for OFF LABEL use for seniors with dementia - to which no one is paying attention.
Just to inform the poster above who referred to parents as uneducated monkeys, my son and I were repeatedly reassured by the doctor that Zyprexa, a new drug to us, was safe as could be. All Lilly literature indicated likewise. Now my son is dead from it. How can you and people like Nathan hold your heads up, shilling for such a greedy, lethal industry?
Cathy
I absolutely support the conformed consent bill.
I can’t imagine people even being put in a position where they don’t have consent but yet I have seen it happen often. The side affects of these drugs is dangerous enough that people do need to be educated and understand what is going on. Great bill and yes, I 100% support this and question anyone who doesn’t. Knowledge is empowering and that’s what parents and individual’s need.
Arlene
As an active parent in my children’s school (was Parent and Teacher Organization President for an elementary school), and having a nursing degree, I completely understand the lack of data that parents get about their children’s medication. A parent told me about how her Dr. and RN responded to her questions about her child’s meds. She informed me of side effects. What she did not know is that they were the ADULT known side effects because none of the meds her kid was on was approved for children. YET, the “medical team” confidently rattled off the side effects for a med on the ADULT label. No one ever said to her that the FDA had not established effectivenes of the meds her child was on. Not FDA approved for children and was told to watch for side effects from the ADULT label. That’s misinformation my friends. And, it happens far too often and nurses/doctors should present the FACTS and not present it as FACT when essencially it is misinformation. They should say: “FDA has not approved this drug for children, and we can tell you what the FDA has approved for the adult side, and you choose if you want to give this medication to your child.” Clinical studies for children have stricter parental informed consent rules when prescribing a child a med not approved for children for their experiments (I mean clinical studies), WHY are doctors in the field allowed to experiment with these medications (also known as “off-label”) with little parental informed consent? Off-label is just unregulated field clinical studies without proper parental informed consent and laws need to be inplace to protect parental rights.
Bill
Thank You Arlene and well said!
I believe that people are failing to see the BIG picture here. This bill is nothing more than a smoke screen designed to distract people, parents in particular, from the main issue.
That issue is our right as parents to know exactly what is happening to our children outside of the home.
In this case our children are being used as human guinea pigs by the pharmaceutical industry with the approval of the FDA, local government and local school boards. Beginning with passive consent forms and leading right up to this bill our rights as parents are being trampled upon by the government on the local and federal levels. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Michael
I am very suspicious of the drugs. Neurologically exactly what do they do? I’ve heard and witnessed too many of the side effects and have seen publications that people are more likely to recovery off the psychotropic medications. There is also literature on the structural harm they cause to the brain. So, I am very cautious around these drugs and people should know the truth.
Nathan
Laurie writes: “Now, if you want to highlight the off label status of the majority of the drugs contained in this bill, I have no problem with that.:) But we all know that will never happen.”
That’s EXACTLY what I’m saying. Patients, whether pediatric or adults, need to be informed of whether or not the drug they are being prescribed is approved for the given indication. This bill arbitrarily assumes that all psychotropics developed in the future will be just as dangerous as the present drugs. That is simply unacceptable. The bill should be written so that only UNAPPROVED (and/or violated BBWs) are highlighted.
For instance, Ritalin currently has no BBW for pediatric use. It’s been used for decades successfully. Why should this drug be lumped in with Zyprexa?
Maria
Of course this is a great idea - for all phychotropic drugs!
Knowledge is power!!!!
Drugs are so dangerous now a days and there are SO many out there. Parents are not informed enough, from poor uneducated parents, to affluent parents that are new to parenting.
We as parents always want to do what is right for our children, at least allow us to make informed decisions. This can only better our communities and make this world a saner place. I can only hope that this bill will spread to all of the other states. I’ll keep my fingers crossed!
Wayne
Don’t physicians object to television advertising direct to the patient for psychiatric drugs? The pharmaceutical companies have ignored the doctors, and now they are ignoring the parents. Hey, just put that pharmaceutical crap in the water supply and we’ll be done with it.
Jack2
Zyprexa’s BBW only applies to the off-label use - in elderly patients with dementia. Generally, BBW sometimes (often?) only apply when used in a specific subgroup of patients (based on age, diagnosis, etc).
Kevin Candon
Informed consent is a very good idea. This is something parents should know about.
Irene Mele
It is just common sense to have parental consent for any kind of medication to their child, drugs, anti-biotics, and others. Yes, many parents may be uninformed, but is a child at 8 or 10 informed. NO ONE but the parent should make that decision and then with full knowledge and understanding of what are the side effects, and WHY does the kid need these class C drugs. Get with Senator!! What do you own a Stock drug portfolio?????
Nathan
Thanks Jack — then to clarify, why should Ritalin (which is FDA approved for pediatric use with no BBW) be lumped in with Zyprexa which is not approved for any indication for pediatrics? I agree that drugs that are UNAPPROVED for pediatrics should require written consent. I do NOT agree with lumping in drugs that are generally agreed to be safe just because they happen to be “psychotropics”.
Sherman
The self annointed “educated” people above can’t seem to get the message. It takes what I call “Moxxy”. Maybe if they had to foot the medical bills, they’d pay more attention to what some “do-gooders” try to enforce onto parents who live with, know, and are responsible for the child’s health. What a “no brainer”.
Bill
Where do you get your facts Nathan?
Here are some statistics from the FDA for you to chew on:
Of 2,993 adverse reaction (AR) reports concerning “Ritalin” or “methylphenidate” listed by the FDA’s Division of Pharmacovigilance and Epidemiology (DPE), from 1990 to 1997, there were:
160 deaths and
569 hospitalizations - 36 of them life-threatening.
One hundred twenty-six (126) were cardiovascular occurrences, and 949 central or peripheral nervous system occurrences.
There were 6 cases of “cardiomyopathy,”
12 of “arrhythmia,”
7 of “bradycardia,” (slow pulse),
5 of “bundle branch block,” (impairment of conduction apparatus of the heart),
4 of “EKG abnormality,”
5 “extrasystole,” (heart rhythm abnormalities),
3 “heart arrest,”
2 “heart failure”
10 “hypotension,” (low BP),
1 “myocardial infarction,”
15 “tachycardia” (rapid pulse).
This information was also gleaned at the FDA.gov site:
ADVERSE REACTIONS
Nervousness and insomnia are the most common adverse reactions but are usually controlled by
reducing dosage and omitting the drug in the afternoon or evening. Other reactions include
hypersensitivity (including skin rash, urticaria, fever, arthralgia, exfoliative dermatitis, erythema
multiforme with histopathological findings of necrotizing vasculitis, and thrombocytopenic purpura);
anorexia; nausea; dizziness; palpitations; headache; dyskinesia; drowsiness; blood pressure and pulse
changes, both up and down; tachycardia; angina; cardiac arrhythmia; abdominal pain; weight loss
during prolonged therapy. There have been rare reports of Tourette’s syndrome. Toxic psychosis has
been reported. Although a definite causal relationship has not been established, the following have
been reported in patients taking this drug: instances of abnormal liver function, ranging from
transaminase elevation to hepatic coma; isolated cases of cerebral arteritis and/or occlusion;
leukopenia and/or anemia; transient depressed mood; aggressive behavior; a few instances of scalp
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hair loss. Very rare reports of neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) have been received, and, in
most of these, patients were concurrently receiving therapies associated with NMS. In a single report,
a ten-year-old boy who had been taking methylphenidate for approximately 18 months experienced an
NMS-like event within 45 minutes of ingesting his first dose of venlafaxine. It is uncertain whether
this case represented a drug-drug interaction, a response to either drug alone, or some other cause.
In children, loss of appetite, abdominal pain, weight loss during prolonged therapy, insomnia,
and tachycardia may occur more frequently; however, any of the other adverse reactions listed above
may also occur.
Yeah, sounds safe to me! Aparently “safe” means that the drug didn’t kill you.
laurie
Nathan, you’re confusing off label use with black box warnings. This bill does not address the off label use of any of the drugs listed. It addresses ONLY if there’s a black box warning on that specific drug.
Ritalin does not carry a black box warning, therefore would not be subject to informed consent. Strattera does carry a black box warning, since it’s an SNRI.
Again..I would love to see this bill require informed consent for ALL offlabel prescriptions, but, as you can see just getting this minimal bill passed is a huge undertaking.
Former pharma Marketing Exec
If you kill this bill on the basis of what appears to me to be a flimsy argument, i.e. deciding which BBW to talk about versus which risk, then we will all loose.
Hopefully we can all agree that all drugs, regardless of what they are used to treat carry risks. So, informed consent is a must in all cases. That being said, this bill is directly aimed at informed consent and parental guidance on psychotropics being used on minors.
It is unfortunate that we need a bill like this in the first place, but this bill must pass. Otherwise this example will be used to undermine other constitutional rights.
I cannot say it more clearly, there is a direct link to this issue and to preemption.
Citizens of the US speak up now, or witness the further erosion of your rights all for the sake of profiteering. Corporations do have rights, but we are seeing corporate rights challenging the rights of human beings on almost every front - enough already!
Not only does this bill harm the right of informed consent, it starts to seriously erode the family structure which is the very foundation of this country. Parents rights cannot be bargained or negotiated away. If a minor is being treated for any illness, parents must be involved in guiding their children through the decision making process.
Doctors and Nurses do not live with the consequences. It is the parents that will pick up the pieces.
There can be no argument against this. It is absolutely vital.
laurie
“Beginning with passive consent forms and leading right up to this bill our rights as parents are being trampled upon by the government on the local and federal levels. ”
I’m not getting how requiring a physician to get an informed consent is trampling on your rights? This is an active consent, NOT a passive consent. This bill empowers the parent with information regarding a drug, information that they are not getting today…how is that a bad thing?
I’m not getting your argument.
Nathan
Ok, you guys convinced me. I guess I could agree with this bill. I’d feel beeter if we could add two little words to the end of Ed’s description: “a bill requiring a doctor or nurse to obtain informed consent from a minor’s parent before writing a prescription for any psychotropic that already carries a Black Box warning FOR MINORS.” (for example, SSRI’s in adolescents)
One other question: Who would compose the consent form? Is it just a generic consent form or does the consent form itself list the side effects? If it’s the latter, just the composition of the consent form is likely to be contentious.
Mike
One has to admire the integrity of Joe Vitale-he stays bought no matter what.
I hope Jason is Vitale’s doctor. Trained in East Germany, right?
I would think med professionals would want a bill like this. Complying with it would certainly help cover their butts in the future lawsuits which are sure to happen. Insurance companies should be on that bandwagon too! Maybe the big pharma lobby has more money than the insurance lobby.
Daniel Guild
The truth is that all human beings are entitled to informed consent. Please look up the definition of informed consent in the medical encyclopedia of terminology so you can understand what it means. It’s more than being told about the effects of a drug.
Also, a consent form does not constitute informed consent. The patient has tobe told about all treatment options, and the benefits and risks of every option. And including the option of no treatment at all, even if it means that the disease will kill you. You have a right to make that choice, which can only come from open honest sharing of information. Also, the black box warning doesn’t give real accurate or specific information. It’s not just minors that are at increased risk of SSRI induced suicide.
michael ellner
Seems that our so-called medical experts confuse a doctor’s opinion with doctor’s orders-
Fire your doctors, dump these corrupt and useless politicians and take charge of your lives and health!
John Galt
This Senator should be investigated. He’s obviously got ties to drug companies and is probably on the take. This bill is a no-brainer for any responsible legislator.
At least, let’s vote this guy out of office if we can’t put him in jail for condoning the drugging of children without parental consent. He’s got to be getting big money from Big Pharma or the American Psychiatric Assn for sitting on this bill.
Daniel Guild
Laurie. Passive consent and informed consent are two different things. Via the passive method, parents are not informed. It is assumed by the doctor that pushing life altering/suicide causing drugs on kids is ok because their not telling parents.
It’s an insane policy by doctors to do so.
Daniel Guild
Doctors are always incompetent in terms of informed consent. Because doctors are not required to keep up with the latest scientific data, they know nothing about the drugs, other than what the pharm tells them as required by the FDA, and most ignore that much.
There are 134 unlisted side effects of SSRI drugs. So even if the doctor shows you whats written in the PDR, it still doesn’t comply with informed consent, because most of the known data is not listed.
laurie
Daniel,I understand the difference between passive and active consent…my question was to Bill who felt that parental rights were being taken away with this bill and the use of informed consent…when in fact the bill seeks to inform and empower parents to do more research before making a decision about any drug.
Here is the statment that I was referring too:
“This bill is nothing more than a smoke screen designed to distract people, parents in particular, from the main issue.
That issue is our right as parents to know exactly what is happening to our children outside of the home.”
I don’t get the connection to Bills comment and it’s relavance to the Bill…maybe I missed something.
Mark
I dunno, drugs like antidepressants who can’t even beat a sugar pill in clinical trials and subsequent studies? Horror stories of suicide and murder by people taking them– Virginia Tech, Columbine, Oregon, Mississipi and Minnesota school shootings, just to name a few! I mean a person would have to be brain dead, bribed or blackmailed not to support a complete informed consent to these dangerous and unworkable drugs, not to mention complete disregard for the citizens of their state. It’s nothing short of a disgrace. Any politician who blocks disclosure of the truth should do himself and the public a favor and quit his job asap! This makes absolutely no sense and should be investigated by officials.
The only people who benefit from psychiatric drugs are the heartless souls selling them and even worse, those making them!
Me
People need to be able to make informed decisions. Enough said.
Silas
This Jason is quite arrogant! And he is himself quite uninformed in his own field. This unbelievably irresponsible profession has turned a blind eye to the fact that CHILDREN are commiting suicide as a direct result of taking these psychotropic drugs. Now just HOW knowledgeable can Jason be to have made such a cruel and blatant blunder several 100’s of times over. But it doewsn’t stop there Jason - false authority that you would have us believe you to be. Adolescent children are shooting up their fellow school mates - again as a directt result of these drugs - prescribed by doctors on YOUR watch. Where have you been Jason? For fifteen years people of your ilk who also happened to be board members of the FDA - while also being pharmaceutical reps (a direct conflict of interest and criminal in itself) denied the allegations that their drugs CAUSED suicidality and homicidality - until enough factual evidence forced them to admit what they already knew was true - at which point the Black Box warnings started to appear warning of homicidality and suicidality. These Black Box warnings are enough in themselves to raise outrage that these drugs are even on the market. But it gets worse jason: The Psychiatric tome DSM IV provides no evidence that its 400 - plus “disorders” are in any way due to the so called “chemical imbalance in the brain” which is the only necessitation for the same psychotropic drugs - and the book ADMITS it in print repeatedly. So drop this fascist facade of authoritarianism! Your hidden FRAUD needs to be LOUDLY investigated and every public lay person needs and deserves to have access to the FACTS. And yes, PARENTS have rights senior to your phony authoritarianism!
Lilly
In my opinion, informed consent should be required on every child and adult taking drugs which cause adverse effects. We should have right to know what might happen to our body’s and especially our children. It should be spoken by our doctors, then signed by us before it is presribed.
Starting out with the children and psycotropics,is is a starting point that i hope will carry on to everyone given drugs, some are good, some are essential, but we should make the choice after we have all the information. That is just common sense.
I’ve seen too much harm caused by drugs that are supposed to do everything from calm you down to help you stop smoking.
And most of all people should be given the choice to work out there problems and be themselves.
I appreciate eveything Lauri and the others have done and I am sure they will perservere.
Lilly
Daniel Guild
Hey Jason. Doctors are trained monkeys that kill 300,000 Americans per year. So, the more laws and regulations we have to crack down on you murderers, the better.
Anybody can purchase an education.
Intelligence cannot be purchased.
I’ve heard your phony authoritarian b.s. before.
It doesn’t take a college degree just to be literate. And when doctors are caught making mistakes, they always blame it on the patient.
This is very, very, poor judgment, and I’m sure you do the exact same thing.
You must be insane if you think a doctors judgment is better than mine.
Ed Silverman
Hi Folks,
I appreciate the passion and intensity on display here, but I have to respectfully ask that you all do your best to keep the dialogue civil.
Thanks,
ed
mary prior
Please vote “yes” to give informed consent.
Lisa Van Syckel
Dear All,
Jason is not a Physician, He’s a Drug Rep!! Just ignore him
Lisa Van Syckel
Nathan.
The original Bill called for informed consent for “all” drugs that carry a BBW for minors under 18! It was Senate Committee Staffers who insisted that it be for Psychotropics only.
It is also important to note that we have enough votes in the Senate for its passage and that Senator Vitale is aware of this. The Senator is deliberately keeping this Bill from being heard in Committee, So Industry and their apologists have purchsed a NJ State Senator, and sadly, at the expense of the lives of NJ’s Children. The Senator has the blood of NJ’s children on his hands.
Nathan
Lisa,
Do you have any evidence that the industry is opposed to this legislation? Sure, they donate to Vitale — but pharma donations only account for at most 10-20% of his donations from what I saw.
Vic Caldwell
Informed consent is vital to making choices! I can’t believe that it’s even up for discussion. It’s a fundamental need for a democratic government and for being successful in life.
Dr Spence
If this senator had to experience the devastating effects of these drugs on his children or grandchildren maybe his pocketbook would not have such a powerful influence. Sounds like a man of zero moral character all about $$$$ (politician)
Dr Spence
Patsy
Informed consent is a good idea until you ask who does the informing and how much information and what information will they give? Doctors can’t read out and interpret all the harmful effects of, say, Clozapine, to each patient because it would take all day! I don’t know what the answer is. Perhaps talk to some really healthy, very old people and find out what keeps them that way.
Modesto
It is very disrecpectful from some medical professional giving opinions here, say that parents are “uneducated monkeys” I have a Master in Electronics Engineering and an MBA, I have enough credentials to show that I can think by myself.
I can evaluate medical data, and what I see is an obsession in some doctors (especially psychiatrists) about medicating our kids. They love to have dumbed and violent kids around, as this what these drugs create. I have technical data for any one that wants to know more.
If you love your kids, you can evaluate.
Jud
All drugs that suppose to cure “mental Disorders” are a crock. There are many alternatives to these drugs. They are nothing more then legal poison. Rich doctors and big pharma are the only ones benefiting from this scam. All parents should investigate these industries, and really look for safer alternatives
janine martinez
If Pharmacutical drugs work, well why is every
one that I have come across that was on them sick
and usually depressed ? I f billions of billions
of dollars of drugs are sold every year why is
the average American in worse physical health
than any previous time in history ?
Apart from antibiotics,I personally have never
been “cured” by any drug but I have experienced
many side affects over the following days, weeks,
months etc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
steve boykin
Informed consent is a Great Idea!!!!!! The drugs that are prescribed these days have horrible and potentially dangerous side effects!! I absolutely and firmly believe in Informed consent. Steve
Dave
The thing a lot of people miss is that the parents might never get to see the black box warning. What’s to prevent a teenager from just going and picking up his scrip himself? It’s a legit scrip! The parents find out about it when they get the statement from the insurance company. I don’t have kids (or insurance) so I could be wrong, but that seems like a likely scenario to me.
Joe Vitale can take the blame for the next Dylan Kleibold.
ELLA
First and foremost IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. What a sad commentary on our current ‘medical profession’ that harmful, suicide causing drugs are even considered as ‘treatment’.
What happened to natural cures?
What happened to finding out what is troubling a person and listening to his/her response?
I’ll tell you what happened…
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY… NOTHING ELSE.
Once you confront and recognize that fact you understand the tremendous push to get everyone onto drugs.
Enlightened people are those who see very clearly the man behind the curtain and know with certainty that IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY… NOTHING ELSE.
Jaynesday
There was a time in our country when some of our drugs were delivered by the infamous snake oil salesman.
Drop a few ounces of something that tasted bad in a bottle, slap a label on it that promised to take care of rheumatiz, heartburn, vapors, poor spirits or the currently most popular malady, then step up on the soap box and you might make some quick cash, as long as you didn’t stay in town too long. Of course you would need a few helpful “plants” in the crowd to give testimony to the benefits of your miracle drug, directly to your customers. If not that you could use them to alert your potential customers to the impending epidemic you just saved the folks down the road from. Oh and don’t mention the side effects of your concoction. If someone asks, just stress the benefits.
How times have changed. Thank goodness we have the FDA to protect us from the snake oil salesmen now.
Carolyn Meece
I do not feel that he is interested in any knowledge in which I hold involving the evil killer psychiatric drugs. I found the last blog very abusive, upsetting, and the refusal to not want any real discussion involving the given subject. I am against the drugs and what is illegally taking place in our cities, states, and country. It is all about molding the minds of people and euthanasia.
Yes, I feel there should be parental approval. Yet, there are some parents who do not make wise choices for the child nor do they do their homework involving the evil killer psychiatric drugs. On the other hand there are some parents like corrupt psychiatrists, corrupt officials, and abusers who are about control and obedience and are into “Soul Murder” and therefore should not make decisions involving family members.
I understand that the Constitution does not give the rights to congress to make any laws involving the drugging of children and others.
Carolyn Meece
Jason,
Many of us feel that corrupt psychiatrists do not have any right to meddle in our affairs.
We understand that the drug companies give out thousands and thousands of dollars to those who push psychaitric drugs.
There is no such thing as a psychiatric expert that is not bought by the drug companies. It is a known facter that he/she will report his/her delusions in a court of law and that different experts can be bought off by corrupt officials or by abusers or sociopath/psychopath with the promise of insurance money.
Besides it is known that psychaitrists are not experts and many cannot even pass the smell test or “Forensic Science” test.
“The Killing Fields”, he/she did not leave because I did not want him/her too. There is absolutely no cure for fake illnesses and all the money in the world is never enough. There is no test that will tell if anyone has any illness.
The system is full of cruel, inhumane, degrading treatment and punishment, abuse and forms of torture. It is the system that is raping the rape victims and making people sick and destroying minds. The corrupt system is defrauding records in order to make the ends justify the means. The so-called mental health system is a very sick system full of “Racketeering”, “Enterprise Corruption” and using mental health as a false front.
It does not take a skyrocket scientist or criminologist in which to put the puzzle pieces together or connect the dots.
This is not to say that all mental health workers are bad, abusive, corrupt, etc. The psychiatric drugs are not the solution. I do not find the psychiatric drugs as the solution for many of society’s problems. There are a great number of psychiatric horror stories so one cannot state that just because one is in the so-called mental health industry his/her opinion should come before someone who has knowledge. The so-called mental health industry is full of criminal activity and greed.
Carolyn Meece
Jason,
Some people are not patients but hostages held against his/her will, the law, and state Compiled Statues. Much of psychiatry is a illness within itself. It has been proven that much it involves brainwashing, Ideology and Propaganda.
The so-called mental health industry is run the Soviet style involving “Soviet-style Psychiatric Terrorism”. The corrupt use fear, terror, and violence in order to try to break down the hostage. It is a “Theatrical Hoax” and they do not have any real case in which to present to the court. Much of it is about extorting money from insurance companies, the taxpayers, and the hostage themself. They argue about anything and everything and do not even know what they are taliing about in reporting their delusions and prove themselves to be psychotic. They should just go out and guy a rat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is the degrading of human beings.
We know definitely what is taking place and as the know-it-alls go for the jugular of the hostage they get their own jugualr. Those in the so-called mental health industry need to take the plank out of his/her own eye and for these sociopath to say they know what is best for us is a bunch of hotwash.
What we see is that many in the so-called mental health industry suffer from “Grandiose Sense of Purpose” and live in a phantasy world.
“Alice-in-Wonderland”
“Checkmate”, “False Memory”
Many survivors are happy to say that
US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald took Elizabeth Loftus to task involing her not so scientific books and inflated figures. She has been in a thorn in the side for surivivors involving memory. Much of psychiatry is pseudo-science, mad doctoring, sham, con game, wicked witchcraft. They absolutely refuse to deal with reality or truth.
“crimelibrary” why some doctors kill
Carolyn Meece
A number of us know that the so-called mental health industry, psychiatrists, and drug companies have knowingly lied about the evil killer psychiatric drugs for years and years.
“Off Label” and forced drugging is a violation of Amendment VIII. Let’s pretend you are this and your abusers and the corrupt are that and the records are defrauded to make the ends justify the means in force feeding the evil killer drugs. It is not make for any real illness.
“Hero Syndrome”, Caretaker, and those who suffer from “Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy” and be considered “Serial Killers” depending on how many people die. The records are like one has taken an oath in which to speak the truth. Lies are supposed to be subjected to “Perjury”. Many of us know those in the so-called mental health industry have knowingly lied for years. We see who the real dangers to society really are. The proof is in the pudding because we know the pudding.
The first thing the corrupt, violent, and abusers do is to attack the memory involving the victim/target/”Victim of Violent Crime”. Their stories constantly change and the records read screwy, perverted, sick, and twisted. They feel they can rewrite history.
Plan A, Plan B, maybe Plan C then spin, spin, spin - Game of Statue, “CRY_WOLF”
Robots, Puppets, “Zombie”, It is all “Deranged” on “Animal Farm”, “Dancing in the Dark”, and they absolutely refuse “End of Violnce”.
One can see that the corrupt have “Tunnel Vision” and all he/she sees are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or more
Arnold Tarling
I suggest that NJ Senator Joe Vitale checkout the DVD “Psychiatry: An Industry of Death,” available from the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (http://www.cchr.org).
Any legislator so informed, would be requiring informed consent for any psychiatric recommendation period!
patrick
I saw the industry of death video and I was shocked; I knew anti depressants were bad because they tried to continually put my Dad on them. He became very robotic and unlike himself at all, like another person and this was only after two weeks-they gave him the drug Haldol against my wishes and without my consent. I took him to 5 different facilities before I could find one that would not drug him to keep him complacent. Anyone who has elder parents who have any mental issues should be very very cautious about these drugs the doctors prescribe them like candy( they get kickbacks from the Pharmacuetical companies) but the long term effects can be suicide or at the least a complete personality change to a vegetable like state.
PWD
Glendale Ca.
Wm Stanley
After reading most of these comments several things are apparent: The contemporary incumbents do not wish to give up their sub-deity role or the dole of gov. and Pharmaceuticals.
Those that object to wonderful panaceas of Chemistry assume they can make a better decision by a presentation of the technical data about the so-called “medications.”
Lastly, each respondent assumes that the other side cares or will consider what they have made the effort to communicate.
So much time and attention as been put into correcting this man-made situation. It would be a grievous error to do nothing.
Perhaps the basis of this and most confusion lies with the misunderstood word and thus a point of contention. What is the root of the word “Pharmaceutical”?
I have found the following:
Pharmaceutical
The word “pharmaceutical” shows the basic meaning even if the word “drug” has not acquired a bad image.
“Pharma” means “drugs.” “Ceutical” means “remedy.”
So you have this word meaning “a remedy by use of drugs.”
I make extensive use of something called a “pop up” window on this site. You can CLICK HERE to see the historical origin of the word and its parts. The click will take you to a new window that opens a page on this site — but it is intended to be CLOSED when you are finished — so that you arrive back on this same page. You can, however, use this pop up window just as any window and go to another page or web site from within it.
The best and most honest definition, of course, comes from the oldest dictionary I could find:
Old Dictionary - Pharmaceutical
pharmaceutical
1648 (pharmaceutic in the same sense is from 1541), from L. pharmaceuticus “of drugs,” from Gk. pharmakeutikos, from pharmakeus “preparer of drugs, poisoner,” from pharmakon “medicine, poison.” Pharmacology is attested from 1721, formed in Mod.L. (1683) with Gk. -logia “dealing with the topic of.” (source)
Note that in 1541 “pharmaceutical” included the concept of “poison” from the original Greek meaning. Pharmaceuticals, of course, are far more poisonous today than they were 2,500 years ago when the Greeks were dealing with plants and herbs that had toxic effects.
Likewise, the word “drug” has an ancient history of usage and the “pharaceutical” industry has worked hard to change the definition in modern dictionaries. Here is an old definition.
1327, from O.Fr. drouge, perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. droge-vate “dry barrels,” with first element mistaken as word for the contents (see dry goods), or because medicines mostly consisted of dried herbs. Application to “narcotics and opiates” is 1883, though association with “poisons” is 1500s. The verb is from 1605. Druggie first recorded 1968. Drug-store is 1810; drug-store cowboy is 1925, Amer.Eng. slang, originally one who dressed like a Westerner but obviously wasn’t. To be a drug on or in the market (c.1661) is of doubtful connection and may be a different word, perhaps drag, which was sometimes drug c.1240-1800. (source)
The word “parmacy” is, likewise, now thought to be a fine word, denoting a high degree of professionalism. Would it surprise you to know that the word, originally, included the place you could go to get “spells?”
pharmacy
c.1386, “a medicine,” from O.Fr. farmacie, from M.L. pharmacia, from Gk. pharmakeia “use of drugs or medicines,” from pharmakeus “preparer of drugs,” from pharmakon “drug, poison, philter, charm, spell, enchantment.” Meaning “use or administration of drugs” is attested from c.1400; that of “place where drugs are prepared and dispensed” is first recorded 1833. Pharmacist coined in Eng. 1834. (SOURCE)
The word, “medicine,” also has a shady history:
medicine
c.1225, from L. medicina, originally ars medicina “the medical art,” from fem. of medicinus (adj.) “of a doctor,” from medicus “a physician” (see medical). To take (one’s) medicine “submit to something disagreeable” is first recorded 1865. N.Amer. Indian medicine-man “shaman” is first attested 1801, from Amer. Indian adoption of the word in sense of “magical influence.” The U.S.-Canadian boundary they called Medicine Line (first attested 1910), because it conferred a kind of magic protection: punishment for crimes committed on one side of it could be avoided by crossing over to the other. Medicine show “traveling show meant to attract a crowd so patent medicine can be sold to them” is Amer.Eng., 1938. Medicine ball “stuffed leather ball used for exercise” is from 1895. (source)
NO, I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY USE OF POISONS AND WITCHCRAFT. Such use and abuse must not be allowed in any civilized or christian society. I trust I have legal backing on this position of which many are unaware.
Wm
Any “cures” have usually been in spite of and not because of drug use. That is the poison is more likely to kill the organism than the patient (we hope)
Lois Mann
Always informed consent should be required. Drugs are dangerous and there are other ways like nutrition, rest and quiet and good classroom help for children.. Children are too young to be pushed into this unworkable solution.
Carolyn Meece
From their own admission, via the American Psychiatric Association (APA) the Psychiatric Industry is not an organization to “heal minds”. They cannot even help themselves. It is wholly a financial enterprise. The Patient Self Determination Act of 1990 gives patients the right to make choices and decisions about the types and extent of medical care they wish for themselves. It is forbidden by law, to force the evil psychiatric drugs upon anyone unless he/she poses an imminent threat to himself/herself or other. It is very clear who the real dangers to society really are. Those involved in this Ritual Abuse showed Disregard for Human Welfare. Guilt and shame belong to the perpetrators, abusers, etc. For years there has been baseless allegations when it comes to corrupt and conspiring including psychiatrists. The American Flag is supposed to stand for Peace, Honor, Truth, and Justice.
Many psychiatrists and so-called mental health workers cannot even carry on an intelligent conversation. It is impossible to rationalize what comes out of their bulling, conspiring, and criminal/homicidal mouths.
Carolyn Meece
Nathan,
Agreed to be safe by whom? The truth is so-called mental health workers and the drug companies have knowingly lied about the evil side effects of the psychaitric drugs for decades and decades. They testify on paper that they informed the hostage of the risks. When in truth all they have done is tell bald-faced lies and one lie after another lie. They demand to be able to pass the drugs out like candy and that they are the answer to societies problems when in fact they do absolutely nothing to solve societies problems. Psychiatrists and the evil killer drugs make society’s problems 10x’s worse. They are not problem solvers. One can see that it is about violence and promoting violence and the absolute refusal to “End of Violence”.
“Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy”, in “The Killing Fields”, one cannot leave because he/she did not want him/her to leave but be a “Zombie” and tortured day and night. We live in a very sick, corrupt, and violent society that loves blood, guts, and death.
Scott
What needs to be done is to call, and have your friends call Vitale’s office and tell him or his staff directly how you feel. If enough people call, and his lines are tied up, the bill will get heard. Reach out to people in his district and tell them to let him know you will vote him out of office because of his unwillingness to let the bill be voted on. Outside of donations, that is the only thing this guy will understand.
Scott
ROSALIE
It is my understanding that informed consent has to do with Parents keeping their kids safe and knowing what is being done with them. OF COURSE!! A PARENT SHOULD BE INFORMED of anything a professional wants to do with or to their child before it is done. I mean what is the world coming to when we even have to discuss that?!!
Well, it has to do with arrogant evil. It has to do with control and money. Can you believe that guy Jason who called parents “uneducated monkeys” that should just listen to him. Would you trust a guy who looks at people that way? Would you trust your kids mental health to a guy like that. He doesn’t even want to tell you what he’s doing. I’m afraid that arrogance is quite typical or we wouldn’t even have to be discussing this.
If you really want to look into it, these professionals are trolling for customers in our schools and drugging our kids for profit. They don’t care a bit that they do damage and kill. All the violent school shootings we have experienced to date have all been linked to these “wonderful” drugs these “professionals” prescribed. They take no responsibility for that whatsoever. They Betray. They damage in the name of help.
Of course they don’t want to tell you what they are doing.
Laura Borst
Yes, informed consent should be required before these drugs are prescribed for anyone, but particularly for children. In fact, psychiatric drugs are mind control drugs that shouldn’t be prescribed for anyone. But many parents aren’t aware that these drugs could have paradoxical effects, such as akathisia(a form of restlessness that has been listed as a side effect of psychiatric drugs). This can exacerbate even some of the “symptoms” for which the drug was prescribed. Akathisia may be the cause of some of the school shootings. Many of the perpetrators of the school shootings were on Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Eric Harris, one of the Columbine killers, was reportedly taking Luvox at the time of the shootings. Antidepressants were found in the Virginia Tech killer’s medicine cabinet. The FDA has also placed a warning on SSRIs that stated these drugs increased the risk of suicide in young people.
rev. Antros Savas
The Senator needs to be investigated for so blantaly refusing to do this. He is committing crimes against us and our children if he holds this back.
Maybe he is doing this out of pure ignorance of what these drugs do,and his lack knowledege of it, but that is NOT an excuse, and is irresponsible to us and plain stupid
Special favors always cause Blindness….this should be investigated.!
Rev. Antros Demetrios Savas
Pam
If we leave it up to the doctors, the State, the “professionals” we are all doomed to being controlled into slavery.
Ever hear of “freedom of choice”?
There should be no question that Informed Consent is not only appropriate, but necessary.
T. Fallet
Hey Senator Joe Vitale,
Ya got Big Pharma in your back pocket???
Who’s donated to your campaign, or has promised to donate for your re-election???
HOW COULD YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT KNOWING YOUR PROTECTING CORPORATIONS OVER THE LIVES OF LITTLE CHILDREN?????????????????????????
How could you disregard the very parents who helped you get in to office??? Now when they need help, you won’t help them??? Hmmm, what’s wrong with this picture??? Let’s fix it.
HEY JOE, WHAT DO YOU KNOW??? I PRACTICE G.R.I.P.!!! GET RID OF INCOMBENT POLITITIANS!!! AND I RECOMMEND THAT ALL YOU CONCERNED PARENTS DO THE SAME!!! LET’S VOTE THIS GUY OUT OF OFFICE WHERE WE CAN GET SOMEONE IN THERE WHO WILL WILLINGLY ANSWER THE PHONE!!!
James Hays
It seems the welfare of a child is not one of Senator Joe Vitales importances. To not allow VITAL data to be passed on to a parent in regards to the welfare of their child is gross neglegence on his part. What would be the motive of a person of this character? I can tell you this. It is not a sane one!
Lisa Van S
Breaking News,… I have received numerious e-mails asking whether or not the informed consent bill will be heard by Senator Vitale’s Health Committee on Dec. 8th, unfortunately it is not. The Parents Bill will never be heard!! But,… I suggest Pharma and their apologists hold back their applause!!!! Because our bill is being replaced. I look forward to having the last laugh!!!!…