Tiggergate: Using Disney Icons To Sell Seroquel
33 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // November 6th, 2008 // 2:44 pm
How is this for creative selling? An AstraZeneca regional sales manager allegedly directed the sales reps in her region to use some of Winnie the Pooh’s well-known friends - specifically, Tigger and Eeyore - to promote the Seroquel antipsychotic.
We are told the idea was conveyed at a national sales meeting and on field rides with sales reps, who were told to use Tigger as a bipolar patient and Eeyore - the down-in-the-mouth donkey - as a depressed patient. The reps were allegedly encouraged to use Tigger dolls as giveaways, for instance.
Whether any of the reps actually did so is unclear. Nonetheless, an AstraZeneca spokesman tells us that the drugmaker is “investigating the allegations,” although he adds that “it wouldn’t be appropriate to comment further, because it is an open investigation.”
Who knows what lurks in the 100 Acre Woods?
Steve
This has got to be a new low in sales gimmicks!
Also, if the company benefits from the use of these props, the manufacturer (patent holder/trademark) is entitled to a royalty.
This indicates to me that overall, the industry is panicked and desperate.
I wonder how the doctors feel when they are presented cartoon character shows, and being reduced to a child’s level to understand what they should already know!
anon
Who says it’s directed at prescribers?
Maybe it’s directed at kids.
Jim
Maybe they should use the “Joe the Camel.”
Med Chemist
Maybe there’s more similarities between cigarettes and Seroquel than either group of companies are letting on.
formermarketingexec
Actually the worrisome part is that this was done without someone in the company checking to make sure that it was legally acceptable…
Usually, all material that is provided to the sales reps before a sales meeting, presentations and sales tips included, are cleared through medical and regulatory.
So, the big flag here is that this appears to not have been the case. shows how lax pharma management is getting. “Sales at any cost, we do not care if we have to pay a fine to Disney, we’ll cover it in sales dollars…” In the meantime, patients, government aid programs and insurance companies (I know we love to hate these guys) are getting tired of paying higher prices because of complacency, these fines, are like “stupid taxes” and we shouldn’t have to pay them…
Hope Disney finds out and makes a federal case of it…
And by the way, isn’t this a bit like “genericizing” the Disney brand…?
Nathan
“Actually the worrisome part is that this was done without someone in the company checking to make sure that it was legally acceptable…”
How are you so sure? Do you have some “insider” info?
RandDChemsit
I agree that one obvious aspect (not necessarily the most worrisome) is the legality. It seems to me that inside information is not needed and it seems obvious (common sense) that no one checked this marketing out. Either that or there is an incredibly stupid individual or group of people.
Disney is swift and draconian in protecting its image and characters.
harpy
If it was presented at a National Sales Meeting then someone was definitely asleep at the switch in not stopping it. Is Seroquel approved for use in kids? If not, there could be a case for off-label marketing. Fun!
Nathan
RandDChemsit — good point. I assume the fact that Astra is investigating speaks for itself. It’ll be interesting to see if Disney has anything to say.
Laura Borst
It is egregious that the pharmaceutical industry is pathologizing children for profit. They use that pathologizing to sell dangerous drugs that have been linked to diabetes in adults. Children, because they are still growing, are obviously more vulnerable to the deleterious effects of such drugs than adults are. Children naturally are enthusiastic and anyone who has been around toddlers knows about “the terrible twos”. Children are not only being pathologized for the convenience and the corrupt profits of adults, but if they are given these drugs, they will likely suffer permanent negative effects.
Christopher
The article referred to one regional manager who suggested this idea. We don’t know how many reps followed the suggestion. We don’t know if it had any effect whatsoever. We don’t even know if it happened at all - Ed used allegedly more than once. And so the result is what? Talk of Disney issuing lawsuits; the sinister calculations of AZ’s management offsetting incremental sales to pay off Disney; and now a new verb! To pathologize. For goodness’ sake people, it was one manager who had a tacky idea, no more, no less: save the outrage for causes that deserve it.
Steve
Christopher
All you need is a story like this to get around and, gee whiz,it makes it to the top.
If any of this did happen, Disney will make sure it’s a big deal.
Mike
These Bastard will stop at nothing.
They already sell the most expensive sleeping pill on the market. 600 to 900 mg at night?
What is that 600-900$ a month?
It would be better to treat the manic symptons with something that works in the 1st place.
FYI a typical DM has at least 100 reps under thier guidance.
Christopher
Whether Disney clobbers them for copyright infringement is neither here nor there as far as damage done to patients via unduly influenced prescribers, which is the focus of this topic.
And Mike, I know about reps and DMs, but again, we do not know how many - of any - followed the DM’s instructions.
My point is to have some sort of balance. Does anybody really think - really - that a physician will be driven to recommend Seroquel to children because a rep may have given him/her a cuddly toy?
It is just not worth all the angst and gnashing that’s been seen here. What about getting angry about provision of healthcare to vets? How about we make treatment affordable overall? Let’s pressurise pharma companies to make more medicines accessible to underprivileged sections of our communities.
That’s worth some emotional investment, not Tigger and bloody Eeyore.
Jennifer
Unfortunately, this IS true. The Seroquel rep that calls on my office used it… complete with Eeyore and Tigger action figures. My clleagues and I thought it was a little weird.
Insider
Which part of the country are you in Jennifer?
Daniel
WOW. Was Elmer Fud a homicidal maniac? Maybe he was on psych meds which drove him to go kill some poor little wabits. hmmm… What about the tazmanian devil?
In all seriousness, this incident is an extension of the drug pushers mentality that is fostered by the mega giant corporations they work for. That’s why 90% of state foster children are given on average 5 psych drugs.
The US congress needs to expand their investigations and prosecute all involved in chemically assaulting our society and our nations future. May we should tell http://www.change.org that it’s time t outlaw fictitious diseases.
Robert Alexander Jones
This story says a lot about psychiatry.
I am a diagnosed paranoid scitsophrenic and while I have never been able to hear voices in my head the doctors have been able to hear voices in my head.
The irony is that these cartoon characters are not real and neither are the conditions they claim to be able to treat.
It is not science or medicine it is sales.
Create the problem and sell the solution!
Telling many psychiatrists that these diseases in the DCM do not exist is like telling a child that Santa Clause is not real.
They get stroppy.
But here Professor Dixie Dean’s appraisal of the diagnosies of the Pooh Bear characters on page 2.
Just because they are not real dose not mean they don’t heed “help” lol.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38664
Lisa Van S
Ed,
Just one one word::::: “Discusting”……
Lisa Van S
Harpy,
FDA has never approved Seroquel (for any indication) for the pediatric population. Seroquel also carries an FDA Black Box Warning for increased risk for violence and suicide for individuals under the age of 25. Im sure Disney would enjoy seeing their beloved Tigger becoming violant and suicidal.
FDAer
Lisa,
Although not approved in children I do believe it is being worked on. Companies often begin offlabel promotion before an additional indication or population is approved.
Not only that but take a look at the new labeling format with supposedly all the important information up front. It looks like this now for all the antipsychotics and is so generic as to be worthless. It’s virtually impossible to tell which particular drug a particular side effect is more severe or more common with. Plus if preemption passes this will prevent any accountability.
Finally if you look at the progressive changes in labeling for ritalin and related drugs over the past several years you can see a progression that pushes prescribers to look for the possibility of bipolar disorder and finally finally increases the warnings on certain AEs. This is ofter done as a drug goes generic to push prescribing of a new class.
Note the required advisory meeting on psychotic reactions with Concerta/methylphenidate was pushed by Dianne Murphy who came to FDA from being VP of first pediatric marketing and then marketing at Glaxo. She joined Glaxo right when lamictal was new. She became head of Pediatrics and Counterterrorism at FDA (where her sister another Murphy still works), and then head of the Office of Translational Sciences. Another FDAer now high in OTS is another Glaxo VP (Bob Powell VP of Pharmacokinetics and Drug Metabolism) who was responsible for lamictal (lamictal causes mental retardation and stevens johnson syndrome in children) likely due to a specific metabolite and drug interactions that was not publically known until recently (it was just announced it’s going generic soon). I’m not sure but I think he was also involved in setting up Glaxo’s data collection and analysis systems that were likely used for paxil.
FDAer
Lisa Van S
FDAer,
I understand everthing you have said. I can read the headlines now.
Parents Sue Disney over Tigger’s Suicidal Pill!!
FDAer
Correction. Shirley Murphy became VP of Pediatrics after initially being hired as head of Pediatric Marketing. I cannot confirm if Dianne Murphy also from the FDA pediatric group is her sister or not.
Shirley was hired by John Jenkins the person who was quoted by congress last week as opposing preemption.
Bob Powell was hired by Larry Lesko of Office of Clinical Pharmacology. OCP became a subdivision of the Office of Translational Science, and Bob was promoted above Larry Lesko. When Shirley Murphy left FDA they promoted ShaAvrhee Buckman to head OTS, but Powell may be running things behind the scene. ShaAvrhee is an MD PhD (6 year program) and only did a 1 year pediatrics residency (no fellowship. After 1 or 2 years in the pediatrics group she was promoted and then when OTS was formed a year or two later was promoted to Deputy Director. Even though she really has not real review experience (the pediatrics group) was one of the biggest headaches for reviewers throughout FDA as they really did not know anything and kept making incredible mistakes.
About 1 year ago Rep DeRosa sent a letter to Von Eschenbach about the Reagan Udall Institute at FDA and said she had her eye on ex-industry VPs in OTS.
Even though it only came out about 2-3 years ago that lamictal causes mental retardation, if you look at the original labeling the rats exposed in utero clearly had some sort of CNS damage. Plus during the development of lamictal Glaxo brought down some academic experts in the drug metabolism of the sort of toxic metabolite that wasn’t reported until recently and who had warned of CNS toxicities especially in utero back in 1988 or 89 with antiepileptic drugs and drug interactions due to this mechanism. (Looks like Glaxo pulled a fast one on FDA.) It’s likely that not only does this cause mental retardation but probably abortions also and Glaxo started marketing this for women with bipolar disorder in 2000 or thereabouts. They’ve also had a lot of problems with drug interactions with estrogens and changes in the parent drug during pregnancy. This is probably due to increased formation of this toxic metabolite and their recommendations to increase lamictal to prevent loss of seizure control during preganancy probably increases the fetal toxicity.
None of this about lamictal is anything I learned via FDA it’s all pretty obvious if you simply look at the literature and what’s publicly available.
FDAer
Marc
I happen to know that this particular manager used to be The Brand Director for Nexium at Astra/Zeneca. She should have known better! If I was calling the shots on this issue I would fire her immediatley!
nicole
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this article is simply about some sales rep comparing Tigger and Eeyore to the two ends of the bipolar spectrum. It has nothing to do with Seroquel being used in children. If a doctor can’t remember who fits the protocols for what drug just because someone shows him a Tigger doll, he shouldn’t be a doctor.
Lisa Van S
Well Nicole, Please enlighten me, what is a “Bipolar Spectrum”?
Lisa Van S
Dr. Bremner or Dr. Pies,
Would either one of you please explain what Bipolar Spectrum is, and should we really be using Disney Icons to explain it.
nicole
Bipolar symptoms can range from severe depressive episodes to full blown manic episodes, but there are grey areas in between that some bipolars experience. Therefore, the extremes are the ends of the spectrum.
anon
The point is that it wasn’t a sales rep. It was a Regional Manager who allegedly directed her sales reps to utilize these characters’ behaviors as analogies. Anything that the reps use or say has to be approved by legal and regulatory and DDMAC at the FDA. This is a clear is an infringement on Disney trademarks. It shows that it is a concerted effort on behalf of the organization and not just a one off. Finally, nothing has been done to the Regional Manager to reprimand her. Apparently, it is acceptable behavior at this company.
Lisa Van S
Nicole,
Are you a Psychiatrist or an Industry Rep. or maybe a represenative of NAMI? Bipolars,.. yikes, with talk like that stigma stays alive and well. Always thought the disease was called Manic Depressive Disorder. Were you aware that Seroquel carries a Black Box Warning for increased risk for violence and suicide? Were you aware that seroquel can bring on a manic episode in depressive and non depressive patients?
nicole
The term is Bipolar Disorder, I know because I have it. I take Seroquel. My only point in posting was that the original article said absolutely nothing about children. Taking Seroquel or not, it only talked about Disney characters, nothing about children. And calling something by its proper name does not keep stigma alive and well. It actually does the opposite.
Johnny Ancich
Speaking of Winnie the Pooh, check out what’s new in the 100 acre wood:
http://pastexpiry.blogspot.com/2009/05/cartoon-eeyore-overdose.html
*CARTOON*
Robin Nemeth
This is pretty low down but not at all surprising. I have personal experience of a doctor using off-label marketing of prescription medication to minors. I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to off-label market a drug at all, let alone to a minor. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to what pharma is willing to do. Government officials get bent out of shape when cereal makers sell our kids sugar or cigarettes. But they don’t give a rat’s rear end when pharma pushes psychiatric meds on them. Well considering how much money lobbyists from pharma are giving congress, what else would one expect?