I’m glad for you and that things are better. The issue with suicide and antidepressants is complex.

I think the facts do indicate that antidepressants actually cause suicides and suicidality especially in teens. Around the end of March 2004 the FDA issued a quiet statement that there had been some post marketing reports of suicides. Around a week later it was first reported in the news that Andy Mosholder a psychiatrist at FDA had actually found a evidence for increased suicides by examining head to head placebo controlled studies and he had been prevented from presenting this to an advisory committee. This prompted Congressional inquiries and FDA punted and said well it’s inconclusive and turfed the question to Colombia University for a re-review. After Columbia University looked at the data and came to the same conclusion, the FDA re-did Columbia University’s analysis and again came up with the same result. Finally in January 2005 FDA issued a black box warning. (Most later reports saying there was no increase did not include placebo controls or were based on publications without the level of detail. Although those that were good placebo controlled ones did replicate the FDA results and found a link.) Now prior to the 2005 labeling change FDA had a public meeting and there was Medco data that said there was a 20% drop in teen usage and IMS data that said there was a 7% increase in teen usage in 2004, (the IMS data reflects all sources and tends to be what is typically used). There’re also complicating factors like it might be worse for some drugs than others (in particular ones like prozac that are ‘activating’ and cause anxiety) and it is probably higher in kids being treated for GAD. Plus the risk goes down as you age and your brain matures. Also from 2003 to 2004 the reported rate of suicide in teenagers increased by about 10 -15% but if you look at stats from earlier depending upon how you analyze them you get decreasing rates until different years. Plus by 2004 the use of atypical antipsychotics was increasing and substantial (which may be the cause of increased suicide rate from 2003 to 2004. So ON AVERAGE they do cause suicide and suicidality.

You point out something that’s very important. There’s a difference between what happens on average and what happens in a particular individual. You were older with multiple episodes that had lots of suicidality as a feature of the illness. So your individual risk benefit ratio and analysis may be different. Depression and bipolar are not due to a single cause and different causes may cause different responses in different people, plus you had good responses fairly quickly with resolution of suicidal thinking (i.e. suicidality). If I were you I would probably do the same thing you’re doing. (In fact I did for many years, but after my life stabilized and I was older and learned how to manage early symptoms I was able to go off drugs because the risk benefit for me had changed. But for a kid with a first even a couple of mild episodes with a lot of anxiety and no suicidality the decision to use a drug and to use it long term may be entirely different.

The problem I have is that the companies, paid off KOL’s, and FDA will not allow the education of the prescriber as to what we really know in order to make an educated guess and so that patients can decide for themselves and also know what the alternatives are and what the data actually says.

But to those who are rightly concerned about long-term side-effects, and I am as well, this is the way I have had to think about it:

Would it be better for me to die at 45 having lead a relatively productive life without the feelings of worthlessness and futility that depression has inspired, would it be better for me to die at 85 having spent my life in bed feeling horrible?

My answer came to be “yes” - but of course if anyone’s answer is “no”, then these drugs should be avoided.

I’m not a doctor or anything, but I am a Bipolar Type 2 patient. I don’t deny that these companies can be Bad with a Big B, but I’d also like to speak in favor of both SSRIs and Lamictal - specifically in regards to suicidal feelings.

Since Bipolar Type 2 tends to manifest depression more strongly than hypo-mania, I have been treated for “just depression” - which often manifested as suicidal thoughts and self-harm - for over 10 years.

I really resisted taking drugs because I was concerned they wouldn’t be healthy. I was getting regular therapy, and tried every natural remedy in the book.

But my depression worsened as I got older, and I finally broke down and started taking SSRIs around year 5 when I was about 22 - and my only regret was that I didn’t do it sooner.

SSRIs weren’t perfect, but they did decrease the suicidal thoughts that I had and greatly improved my memory and functionality. They served well as “band-aids.” Of course, I would feel better and then go off them, (as I’m bipolar!! Haha), but sooner or later I would be back on them. I didn’t take Paxil; I took Celexa, Wellbutrin, and most recently Zoloft, and I know that two years ago Zoloft kept me from doing something rash.

I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar 2 and put on Lamictal, and for the first time in my life, I felt “normal” - as in, I finally felt that being alive wasn’t a horrible thing. I don’t have a suicidal thought as long as I am taking it regularly, and I can’t tell you the hell of forgetting to take it and being right back where I started in a matter of days. It’s even worse knowing that it’s _possible_ to feel “normal,” but I just can’t stop the thoughts that I would be better off dead.

Drugs are certainly overused and of course they can make some situations worse, but if it weren’t for them, I’d likely be crying in my bed or not here at all to post this response.

No one here is arguing that these drugs can be “helpful” in some cases, but they should absolutely always be used as a last resort..

But, what really pisses people off is when drug companies hide and deceive them about the adverse and side effect profiles!!!!

This has happened with countless psychiatric (and other) drugs for decades..

When a drug company buries bad data, it harms patients, and this is all too common a practice in the industry..

Check out my blog for the background on Paxil and you will see why people are so outraged about these issues..

I have worked hard to get pharmas and FDA crooks to jail, so far to no avail. They knew these drugs were lethal before they ever were put on the market, yet the drugs were approved back in the late nineties. One of them, Zyprexa, killed my son before Lilly finally had to admit that checking blood glucose might be a good idea.

I will hand ONE thing to Dr. Goodwin, though this is not a plug for his/Jamison’s bipolar book. The list of lithium toxicity symptoms in the book saved the life of my daughter, who was going to see a HOPKINS-trained doctor who had no idea why my daughter appeared to have athetoid CP. And if Goodwin chooses to eventually have humility along with his ruined career, he can spend some time promoting lithium, a generic drug that is truly the first-line drug for manic depression. My son did well on lithium for many years.

I am one of those individuals who you refer to as being negative.

I also suffer from severe psychiatric illness as do my children (ADHD, Bipolar, Panic Attacks, GAD, etc, been homeless, been institutionalized), and yes we have both benefited from them.

However I also work in the industry on these meds and I know what’s being hidden as to their safety and it absolutely disgusts and terrifieds me. There is alot of very serious long term toxicity that is yet to be publicly known.

Don’t give me what good Goodwin has done. He and Biederman definitely know that they’re pushing inappropriate use. What they likely don’t know is the amount of maiming that will occur and the suffering the children will go through later in life.

There is simply no excuse for it and in my opinion many of these KOL’s, industry executives, and FDA officials really need to go to jail.

Yes I took the medications as do my children but I was UNable to make an informed decision about the long term consequences because the information was covered up.

Now I know and I’m struggling with how much, how long, how many drug holidays and what else I should do. The information simply isn’t there.
I wonder to what extent am I helping my children avoid going through what I went through or am I condemning them to dying by the time they’re 35.

I think Congress should get the information out and let everyone know before we permanently maim and disable a substantial fraction of our youth.

I work with mentally ill children (have any of you out there dealt with a bipolar or ADHD child or adolescent???) and they are treated with psychiatric medication. Most, if not all, of their lives, and their families lives, have improved immensely (I could write a novel based on this.) People need to look at the issue from both sides before they accuse people of unethical and immoral behavior. Dr. Goodwin and others accused by Gardiner Harriss have dedicated their lives to the research and development of treatment for these awful and debilitating diseases. Yes, they may be affiliated with drug companies, however both Dr. Goodwin and others have been critical of these companies at the same time. This bit of information is just the tip of the iceburg of information that Gardiner Harris does report.

P.S. Just in case you were wondering, I am not affiliated with any drug companies and do not get paid by them in any sort of way.

The holocaust is still a controversial topic..
So is World War 2..
As are may things…

By calling the evidence of SSRI induced suicides a “controversial topic” is an attempt at deflection away from the issue..

And the issue is , these drugs are very dangerous and the psychiatrists who pimped them are just as much a danger to public health as the drugs are…

When looking back at my last, it sounds a bit condescending, which was not my intention.

Your comment amounted to nothing.