Comments on: Sales Managers Gripe About Lousy Training

By: MA Rep

MA Rep — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:10:45 +0000

All reps who can only be admitted by bringing lunch, usually for the ENTIRE office staff(!)from my experience, will be in trouble if this is their only entry requirement. I believe that part of the Health Care bill now nefore congree will include some changes in the way that reps can operate during their sales calls. If the entire country goes the way we have here in Massachusetts, you won’t be able to leave anything behind except samples.

By: pharmavet

pharmavet — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:30:03 +0000

Just to let Doc and others know, the last remaining value-added responsibility of the reps, i.e. sample dropping, will be easily managed out at much lower cost using just-in-time technology and companies like UPS. I spent time working for a laboratory supply company which developed a computer algorithm, which, upon the simple press of a button by the physician let us know when he/she was low on supplies. Within 24 hours that same MD was resupplied. Same can easily be done for drugs. A few years ago an industry survey estimated that it cost a typical pharma company about $250/rep/office visit. If you add in the mandatory catering costs, it’s probably now closer to $300/visit. The UPS person can drop ship at a fraction of the cost, and doesn’t need food to get in the front door. By 2015, all major pharma cos. will be using some variant of this or low-paid part-time contract force.

By: pharmavet

pharmavet — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:16:01 +0000

I apologize, douche. I should have been more specific. I went to work for Lilly in 1979, and unless you were a pharmacist, the sign said “Do Not Apply”.

By: Doc

Doc — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:30:00 +0000

Christopher,
Most MDs see reps for 1 reason, free samples for their patients. Every survey shows this is the # 1 reason.

You make many good points, my biggest beef is that industry trys to market their reps as experts, which to your point, they will never be.

Unfortunately, many reps believe that they are.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:17:56 +0000

Doc,
So why do you continue to see the reps? Isn’t it a matter of expectations? I would never expect a rep to be able to handle the discussions you mentioned here: you are (presumably) a trained physician and thankfully can understand and deal with complicated patient scenarios. The rep is not - otherwise he/she would be in practice earning a fortune :-)

I believe the dynamic has changed in recent years. Whereas the rep was previously one of few ways the pharma industry could communicate information about its products in a reasonably coherent and controlled way - along with journal articles - there are now so many other means available to the practitioner to get that information, as you mentioned earlier. The rep’s role has diminished, as well as being regulated to an extreme, and so presumably has his/her value as a communicator.

No question the caliber of reps has changed, and so has their reputation, at least for many. But I don’t understand why so many docs expect anything more than what the rep can offer. If that’s not good enough, shouldn’t they stop seeing them and wasting everybody’s time?

By: Doc

Doc — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:31:19 +0000

Christopher,
Sadly out of 100s of reps I have known over 30 years, about five standout as actually bringing value. 3 were exerienced RNs, 1 was another medically trained individual and the last was an extremely smart and one of the best read reps ever - but he was not trained by his company.

To keep the myth alive that reps are well trained in anything other than their marketing message is pathetic.

The best way to uncover the shortcomings is to begin questioning them in depth on complicated patient scenarios - then you see them lost.

By: Dinosaur

Dinosaur — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:21:28 +0000

Started in pharma in 1973. Douche may think that makes me older than dirt, but that is not the case. I do however remember when dirt went generic. PharmaVet was probably with Eli Lilly. In the 70’s they maintained a sales force of over 85% degreed pharmacists. Most pharma that wanted true sales people avoided pharmacists because they chronically worked part time as pharmacists when they were supposed to be selling, would jump back to pharmacy if the pressure got too high, and tended to have ego problems. They WERE very good at “detailing” because of their pharmacy degrees.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:57:41 +0000

Well if ‘douche’ is typical of the people ‘Doc’ sees I’m not surprised there is so much dissatisfaction.

‘Doc’ - I assume you no longer see reps?

By: Doc

Doc — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:29:30 +0000

Rep training is seriously wanting. They are trained to spit out pre-digested marketing messages, developed from advisory committee MDs that are paid for their opinion.

Most reps have little to no science background, yet the phamra companies perpetuate the myth that they are “experts” and know more about their drugs than practicing physicians. (Who also happen to have years of post graduate education in medicine)

Would anyone want the local pharma rep that sells their specific anti-hypertensive making treatment decisions for them? Gosh, I wonder what they would recommend 99% of the time?

Due to off label compliance, reps can only answer basic questions that any MD could find in the PI faster and more easily on the net or ePocrites. Any serious medical question must be handled by the medical department.

So what has developed is a “sales” force of essentailly biased marketing mouthpieces, with little real medical understanding that are told to “hold their doctors accountable to prescribing the medication”. Accountable to who? Apparently the rep, who is a proxy for the Product Marketing VP.

Can you imagine someone who came to your home once a month, with a printout of what kind of foods you buy at the store and “selling” you on why you should feed your family and children their brand X of food?

No reasonable person would stand for it, yet pharma does this to MDs every day and pays reps outrageous salaries and bonus to do so.

Only in America!

By: Bill henry

Bill henry — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:25:00 +0000

I am a current 12 year biotech rep. The job is a joke, but the pay is good. I made a lot of money outside of pharma sales because of the freedom throughout the day. This is not a true sales job. Don’t fool yourself. If you are not using the freedom to produce a second income or starting a business, you are just wasting time in a dead end career.

I will not leave this industry until I am forced out. I will never become a manager or move up. Not worth the few extra $$.