Sorry, Doc, But You Can’t Eat Ice Cream Here
25 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // October 20th, 2009 // 4:49 pm
You remember those laws that make it harder for drugmakers to wine and dine doctors? Well, as you can see, the issue extends to conferences where drugmakers have exhibit booths. At the recent gathering of the American College of Emergency Physicians in Boston, Schering-Plough felt compelled to tells docs from Minnesota, Vermont and Massachusetts that they would have to get their free ice cream cones and shakes elsewhere. Why? Those states now restrict the sort of freebies drugmakers can give docs. So where can docs go to satisfy their appetites? If not another booth then, perhaps, a restaurant?
Hat tip to Whitecoat and Pharmamarketing
Nathan
Too funny!!
It’s nice to see our taxpayer dollars hard at work. I’m sure the free ice cream and soda really is influencing drug prescription…
M T
I feel so much safer already, just knowing our governmental protectors are insulting doctors by implying they will prescribe us inappropriate meds if they get an ice cream cone at a conference. How stupid do they think doctors are?
Condor
Earlier today, I too, gave in to the temptation to run some goofy home-made photoshopped graphics, as an ode to this story.
The three graphics are here, here and here, but that last one is the weakest — I was rushing off to another engagement.
The two posts (at my spot, on it all) are here and here, if you’d rather see the imagery in context. Great stuff, Ed! That Freddie “Air” Hassan is never one to go easily (or quietly) into the good night. . . .
Namaste!
Condor
At least slightly more seriously, there does seem to be an air of “we’ll show THEM” in the Schering-Plough signage — it seems a none-too-subtle dig — at what Kenilworth sees as the absurdity of Vermont law.
The Pharma Marketing blog had the courage to say so, in his piece on the kerfluffle.
While I agree the law seems excessive — I think Schering has (once again!) done itself no favors with this overly combative approach to local regulation.
That, actually is what this story is “newsie” worth, IMHO.
Namaste
Justice in MI
Right. The dig is not subtle, just smarmy.
The writing sucks too. “[t]hat is” should be deleted.
Condor
Okay. Seriously. Now. Stop. Me. Please.
Okay — I’ll quit now. I promise. And I agree, JiM — poor editing, in evidence as well.
Namaste
talbot
Outstanding, Shering-Plough! Pfizer’s profits are up 26% so it’s going to lay off 15% of the workforce and you’re going to ban docs from 3 states (are you going to check their licenses?) from getting a free ice cream cone. The slitty eyes of angry marketers are all over this one.
harpy
Lilly did something like this a year or two ago when it was just Minnesota (I think you ran a story, Ed). But really, what are they supposed to do? It’s easier to stick a sign out than worry you’re in violation. And you’d be surprised at how few doctors know of the laws in their states.
Nathan
Ok, based on harpy’s comment, I have a serious question:
Who’s responsibility is it to be in complience with the VT/MA/MN laws? If there were no disclaimer, and then a doctor from VT got a free ice cream cone, who is at fault? Who violated the law? The doctor? The pharma company? Or both?
That question gets to the heart of whether this sign is necessary or is it just making a political statement.
pharmavet
There is only one ice cream flavor relevant to Big Pharma these days: Rocky Road
Christopher
Rejected doctors went to the movies - saw Any Given Sundae.
Allan
Small gifts, such as ice cream cones, are neither banned nor reportable in Minnesota. So either Schering-Plough is making a political point, or their compliance lawyer isn’t very good.
Susan
I’ve encountered restrictions on the little freebies for Minnesota doctors as far back as ASCO 2007 or 2006.
Michael
The fact that doctors/healthcare professionals flock to free ice cream cones served at a professional conference is fairly pathetic, and the sign pictured above only exemplifies how sad the healthcare/Pharma arrangement is in this country. If someone has to offer me free ice cream to give them the time of day, it is the first sign that I am absolutely not about to receive vital, potentially life saving “education.” It is laughable to suggest anything different.
Christopher
Comments like Michael’s above ignore what should be a very obvious point: doctors and healthcare professionals are people who act like, well, people. And people like free stuff - ice cream, pens, bats at baseball games, stickers from sports teams - whatever. Because a doctor or healthcare pro takes a free cone does not mean they are selling out or compromising their multi-year training and profesional practice because of an ice cream. They can get life-saving info and job-related info elsewhere. But if they want an ice cream isn’t that allowed?
(State restrictions notwithstanding, which is another absurdity)
Michael
Just like Judges are “people,” but what would you say if in between cases the judge was going out for free ice cream on the defense attorneys? Most would find this absurd (I think). Christopher is ignoring the question as to why in the hell doctors need free anything from the for profit industry whose products said doctors are arbiters of for the public.
Michael
Chris, if they want ice cream, they can go and buy one. This is how I get most things that I want, and it works quite well. Insane concept I am sure.
Former Pharma Marketing Director
They are not the first one to put that sign up. I have attended two conferences in the past two years, and the reps on the booth had to formally ask us which state we were from…..
Seriously though, I agree, if I have to bribe someone with little worthless trinkets to listen to me, then we all need to ask some really deep questions….
I’ve always thought that giving things away at the booth was a crazy practice and should be done away with. Mindlessness…..
Missed you all….
Doc
Trinkets, toys and “little gifts” create a psychological sense of obligation on the part of the recipient and go toward building that critical friendly relationship with the customer.
Pharma companies know this well, they don’t do random acts of kindness.
FDAer
Hey, we can get up to $10 a year.
But do they ever offer us anything?
Actually it depends on which category you fall into.
1. Try to do your job honestly
2. Rubber stamper - most - Types A and B
3. Push things through - “Our people inside the FDA”
1. Category 1
Noooo.
We don’t prescribe.
They won’t even say hello to us but if we’re not in a meeting room 5 minutes before it’s supposed to begin and they’ve already arrived you can be certain upper management will be complained to (if we say something they don’t like).
In fact forget even getting pens or pads. I see more nonhealthcare people on the outside with them than we ever have access to. (My spouse even brings them home from work (a non medical related firm).
Category 2
Depends.
If you’re doing it because you’re scared you don’t get anything. If your doing it because you’re trying to move ahead well there are nice little all day parties at FDA with your counterparts from industry just to get to know each other and build personal relationships.
Category 3
They just have to give jobs to the upper level people. They know they’ll lean on the reviewers for them. Lower level get cushy jobs where they get to write white papers (in pharma’s favor) and travel to conferences in resorts overseas giving presentations (paid for by the organization likely via a grant from a company).
Former Pharma Marketing Director
Doc,
I think I know why pharma does what it does, I used to do it myself. It was part of the marketing plan. We sat around for a few hours trying to come up with novel gadgets to give away at the booth. Something along the lines of come take this short quiz and win an engraved pen or agenda….It is an opportunity to position the product in the clinicians mind in a relatively short time frame. After doing it for so long, one day it dawned on me how ridiculous the scheme is. All you have to do is just step back and think about what you are trying to do.
People come to your booth because they need your product for their practice, if they don’t need your product, then no amount of graft is going to help you. You are just throwing good money away that should be placed elsewhere.
It cheapens the entire business….
Chris
Dear Former Pharma Marketing Director -
I disagree. Depending on the perks you offer, people will take a look even if they are not particularly interested. If you took two equivalent booths (same info available)- one with a perk and one without, the one with the perk would get more attention.
Whether the practice cheapens is a different story.
harpy
Hi Nathan - the burden is on the pharma/device company to track and report promotional items given to healthcare providers (which extends beyond doctors to anyone in a position to recommend, purchase, etc. a product). Most of the laws are cumulative - totalling any/everything given to a doctor - ice cream cone + in-service + dinner for a speaker. Some make allowances for minimal items, like ice cream cones, if the individual item is below a certain amount, it doesn’t have to be counted. Massachusetts (I think, maybe Vermont) requires a company to put meals in the contract for consultants. So, if you’re doing research or speaking for a company and they want to take you to dinner to talk it over, that has to be in the contract beforehand.
Long story short - the company would be in violation.
Christopher
Michael - I’m not ignoring the point; I’m saying that if a doctor, or judge, or any other professional whose work affects the public, can be influenced by something a insignificant as an ice cream, we have bigger problems than the ones you describe. I’m saying that it’s a matter of perspective: if you really think that an ice cream can make a difference in their professional behavior - or affect their professional judgement - we must have very different experiences of interacting with doctors.
Lisa Van Syckel
Christopher,.. I have to agree with you, It’s not like they are offering up a dinner for two at the Citronelle in Washington, DC.