Comments on: Sorry, Doc, But You Can’t Eat Ice Cream Here

By: Lisa Van Syckel

Lisa Van Syckel — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:57:49 +0000

Christopher,.. I have to agree with you, It’s not like they are offering up a dinner for two at the Citronelle in Washington, DC.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:31:15 +0000

Michael - I’m not ignoring the point; I’m saying that if a doctor, or judge, or any other professional whose work affects the public, can be influenced by something a insignificant as an ice cream, we have bigger problems than the ones you describe. I’m saying that it’s a matter of perspective: if you really think that an ice cream can make a difference in their professional behavior - or affect their professional judgement - we must have very different experiences of interacting with doctors.

By: harpy

harpy — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:32:22 +0000

Hi Nathan - the burden is on the pharma/device company to track and report promotional items given to healthcare providers (which extends beyond doctors to anyone in a position to recommend, purchase, etc. a product). Most of the laws are cumulative - totalling any/everything given to a doctor - ice cream cone + in-service + dinner for a speaker. Some make allowances for minimal items, like ice cream cones, if the individual item is below a certain amount, it doesn’t have to be counted. Massachusetts (I think, maybe Vermont) requires a company to put meals in the contract for consultants. So, if you’re doing research or speaking for a company and they want to take you to dinner to talk it over, that has to be in the contract beforehand.

Long story short - the company would be in violation.

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:42:10 +0000

Dear Former Pharma Marketing Director -
I disagree. Depending on the perks you offer, people will take a look even if they are not particularly interested. If you took two equivalent booths (same info available)- one with a perk and one without, the one with the perk would get more attention.
Whether the practice cheapens is a different story.

By: Former Pharma Marketing Director

Former Pharma Marketing Director — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:23:47 +0000

Doc,

I think I know why pharma does what it does, I used to do it myself. It was part of the marketing plan. We sat around for a few hours trying to come up with novel gadgets to give away at the booth. Something along the lines of come take this short quiz and win an engraved pen or agenda….It is an opportunity to position the product in the clinicians mind in a relatively short time frame. After doing it for so long, one day it dawned on me how ridiculous the scheme is. All you have to do is just step back and think about what you are trying to do.

People come to your booth because they need your product for their practice, if they don’t need your product, then no amount of graft is going to help you. You are just throwing good money away that should be placed elsewhere.

It cheapens the entire business….

By: FDAer

FDAer — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:04:12 +0000

Hey, we can get up to $10 a year.

But do they ever offer us anything?

Actually it depends on which category you fall into.

1. Try to do your job honestly
2. Rubber stamper - most - Types A and B
3. Push things through - “Our people inside the FDA”

1. Category 1

Noooo.

We don’t prescribe.

They won’t even say hello to us but if we’re not in a meeting room 5 minutes before it’s supposed to begin and they’ve already arrived you can be certain upper management will be complained to (if we say something they don’t like).

In fact forget even getting pens or pads. I see more nonhealthcare people on the outside with them than we ever have access to. (My spouse even brings them home from work (a non medical related firm).

Category 2

Depends.

If you’re doing it because you’re scared you don’t get anything. If your doing it because you’re trying to move ahead well there are nice little all day parties at FDA with your counterparts from industry just to get to know each other and build personal relationships.

Category 3

They just have to give jobs to the upper level people. They know they’ll lean on the reviewers for them. Lower level get cushy jobs where they get to write white papers (in pharma’s favor) and travel to conferences in resorts overseas giving presentations (paid for by the organization likely via a grant from a company).

By: Doc

Doc — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:38:13 +0000

Trinkets, toys and “little gifts” create a psychological sense of obligation on the part of the recipient and go toward building that critical friendly relationship with the customer.

Pharma companies know this well, they don’t do random acts of kindness.

By: Former Pharma Marketing Director

Former Pharma Marketing Director — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:47:08 +0000

They are not the first one to put that sign up. I have attended two conferences in the past two years, and the reps on the booth had to formally ask us which state we were from…..

Seriously though, I agree, if I have to bribe someone with little worthless trinkets to listen to me, then we all need to ask some really deep questions….

I’ve always thought that giving things away at the booth was a crazy practice and should be done away with. Mindlessness…..

Missed you all….

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:14:35 +0000

Chris, if they want ice cream, they can go and buy one. This is how I get most things that I want, and it works quite well. Insane concept I am sure.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:10:08 +0000

Just like Judges are “people,” but what would you say if in between cases the judge was going out for free ice cream on the defense attorneys? Most would find this absurd (I think). Christopher is ignoring the question as to why in the hell doctors need free anything from the for profit industry whose products said doctors are arbiters of for the public.