WHO Criticized For Pandemic Conflicts Of Interest
61 CommentsBy Ed Silverman // June 4th, 2010 // 8:55 am
The World Health Organization denied that the pharmaceutical industry influenced its planning for a flu pandemic, but new documents suggest that several key scientists who advised the agency had done paid work for the drugmakers - Roche and GlaxoSmithKline - that stood to profit from their guidance, BMJ reports. And while the WHO’s decisions led numerous governments to stockpile billions of dollars of antivirals, the agency failed to provide any details about conflict of interests involving the experts who were consulted and if any action was taken “despite repeated requests.”
The disclosure comes just as a report was released today by the Council of Europe, which harshly criticized the lack of transparency around the handling of the swine flu pandemic. The WHO’s actions led to a “waste of large sums of public money, and unjustified scares and fears about the health risks faced by the European public….(and there was) overwhelming evidence that the seriousness of the pandemic was vastly overrated by WHO,” resulting in a distortion of public health priorities.
according to the report from the Social, Health and Family Affairs Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (see the report here and the statement here).
Ironically, it is almost a year to the day that WHO director Margaret Chan declared a pandemic. Since then, the WHO, which called the inquiries “conspiracy theories,” has been besieged by accusations and PACE called the agency “highly defensive.” The BMJ noted that WHO asked for conflicts of interest forms prior to meetings held by its experts, but their ties to drugmakers were never publicly disclosed. The WHO refused to make the forms available to the BMJ. Meanwhile, the 16 members of an “emergency committee” that advised Chan on declaring a pandemic was kept secret, so any connections to industry remain under lock and key.
Oddly enough, the WHO yesterday recommended that the H1N1 pandemic remain at a Phase 6 alert, which is the highest level, and its expert committee will meet again next month for a reassessment (see this). At the same time, Chan says the name of its committee members will be disclosed once its work is completed. Why not now? “The purpose of this practice is to protect the integrity and independence of the members while doing this critical work, but also to ensure transparency by publicly providing the names of the members as well as information about any interest declared by them at the appropriate time. The committee members strongly concurred with this approach.” So Chan’s idea of transparency is to not release the info until later. What do you think?
Should the WHO Release Names of its Committee Members Now?
- Yes (89%, 105 Votes)
- No (11%, 13 Votes)
Total Voters: 118
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Former Pharma Marketing Director
This is all getting to be too predictable!!!!
Patrons99 - maybe you and I are the only ones WHO didn’t go get our shots!!!
patrons99
There is NO transparency here. It’s also VERY clear that the same “B.S.” as took place last year, is already gearing-up this year. The public is being “whip-sawed” by the WHO using fear as their primary method of control.
Generally speaking, I hope that there are not any “accidental” lab releases of GMOs in store for us. How safe is it for us to assume that the “pandemic” virus is not a man-made GMO? It’s not a stretch to imagine that possibility. Ater all, aren’t live, attenuated jabs, basically GMOs? Is there no risk of horizontal transfection of non-human DNA to humans in the current pediatric and adult vaccine schedules and annual flu jabs? How certain are we that annual flu jabs are not actually making us more susceptible to viral infections? How certain are we that the virus does not mutate and evolve faster than the turnaround time for each “designer” jab?
I wonder if Advanced Market Commitments are already in place with governments worldwide for this year’s “pandemic” hysteria and frenzy. Does anyone doubt that worldwide flu jabs will eventually be mandated? How do we really know that the jabs aren’t more dangerous than the virus itself? Why doesn’t the WHO adhere to the Precautionary Principle?
We all have a God-given unenumerated Constitutional right not to have jabs of any kind forced upon us. Similarly, I would not advocate denying anyone their right to choose to be jabbed.
The viewpoint expressed here is solely opinion, and not intended to be medical advice.
Stephany
Being the skeptic I am, there was no way on God’s green earth I was going to buy into that epidemic BS, never got the shot, nor did I ever consider it!
It’s predictable is right. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting, corruption and pockets lined with cash, what’s new?
Andrea
Pandemic, schmandemic…I never once considered getting the shot, either.
Visions of the Andromeda Strain that just didn’t have enough strength…or perhaps it was a test run. Paranoia descends!
1971Thistle
Phoney baloney
Paul Flynn, who wrote the report, has pursued an anti-pharma agenda since forever; his conclusion was first thing on the paper, I don’t doubt.
Also, how about the role of the media? The reason this kicked off was because worldwide media said this weas the new plague, and policy-makers had to act. To not do so would have been political suicide.
They put pressure on industry, who - through a combination of political pressure and an eye on the profits, delivered what they were asked to deliver.
It doesn’t happen, all of a sudden it’s called a conspiracy by the same media who created the scare in the first place.
The WHO aren’t blameless - they hyped this up like they hyped up H5N1 to gain funding - but to suggest it was cooked up by a few experts bribed by industry is laughable.
Mainstream media need to look in the mirror here; when a bad ‘un does come along, those people who can help won’t be able to
JaT
No one I know got the vaccine. Further, no one I know got a regular flu vaccine because of how H1N1 was handled. Backfire.
Paul
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Imagine if they had been slow in calling it a pandemic and one indeed had happened…
Justice in MI
No shot here.
I’d be interested to hear the views of those who voted for post hoc “transparency.”
patrons99
See an article titled “Fast-tracked Swine Flu Vaccine under Fire” by Mae-Wan Ho and Prof. Joe Cummins on July 7, 27, 2009.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/fastTrackSwineFluVaccineUnderFire.php
See an article titled “Cardiovascular Risks from Swine Flu Vaccines” by Mae-Wan Ho in an ISIS Press Release of October 11, 2009.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/CRSFV.php
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/pdf/CV_MaeWanHo.pdf
Condor
Shot-free, since ‘73. . . .
[For the "did you" poll. . . .]
But don’t go by me, I have off the chart immunity.
Entirely naturally occuring — doctors can’t explain it — I never get sick.
Ever.
Just great genes, I guess.
Namaste
patrons99
JiM - I vote for COMPLETE transparency at all times. If, for example, we wait for transparency from the WHO until AFTER the next “pandemic” hysteria, it may be too late to make any difference. We’ve got to know now if the WHO can be trusted with our health.
Sunshine is often the best “disinfectant”.
I don’t know where I heard that and I could easily be misquoting whoever made such a statement, but the jist of it, has to be true.
Stephany
Truth shines a bright light
John
I guess you guys all sold all your houses and your stock holdings in September of 2008. Or is it just as my former boss used to say, “the easiest predictions to make are for situations where the outcome is already known”?
I was flew to China shortly after the outbreak began in Mexico, and after the plane landed guys in isolation suits (a la Andromeda Strain”) came on board and took everyone’s temperature. One guy in the front of the plane had a mild fever, and everyone within 4 seats of him in every direction was hauled off for 2 weeks of quarantine.
Is it just that the Chinese authorities, like the WHO, the CDC, former president Ford, and everyone else who worries about another pandemic is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical industry? Or could it possibly be related to the fact that SE Asia had bird flu outbreaks in 2004 - 2006 in which over half of infected individuals died?
vince
For an interesting perspective on exactly what happen including how th very definition of a “pandemic” changed an interesting interview with Theresa Forcades, MD, PhD in public health ; theology degree from Harvard “Bell tolling for the swine flu’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0JqQyl09zQ
patrons99
Vince - thanks for the youtube link.
What’s that business about “72 kilos” of flu vaccine material from Baxter killing all of the “weasels”? What’s that all about?
Here are some links to the translated text of the video for those of you who are not bilingual.
http://www.pharmalot.com/2010/04/who-experts-deny-pharma-influenced-h1n1-vaccine/#comment-495863
As I recall, Baxter had a “research” lab in the Ukraine.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/plague-or-mutant-h1n1-infects-40-000-kills-80-ukraine
patrons99
Dr Theresa Forcades understands exactly what the major issue is.
This topic must be publically discussed NOW, far and wide. It affects us all. There needs to be complete transparency NOW, not later.
“Well, you may ask… and what terrible thing may arrive? Well… the mandatory vaccination. This is the most important point to me. It is very important to spread this information so that even if the vaccination is offered on a voluntary basis, the larger the number of people who know about the circumstances surrounding this vaccine and all the facts that we’re telling the better, so that each one of us can make an informed decision.”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25001788/Angl-350s-a-Reflection-and-a-Proposal-in-Relation-to-the-New-Influenza
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25001777/Cacheof-PDF-English-Transcript-Bell-Tolling-for-Swine-Flu
patrons99
See an article titled “WHO swine flu experts ‘linked’ with drug companies” on June 4, 2010. from BBC news.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/10235558.stm
“On its website, WHO says: “Potential conflicts of interest are inherent in any relationship between a normative and health development agency, like WHO, and a profit-driven industry.
“Similar considerations apply when experts advising the Organization have professional links with pharmaceutical companies.
“Numerous safeguards are in place to manage possible conflicts of interest or their perception.”
Bollocks !!!
patrons99
Lighten up everyone! It’s not the end of the world…yet!
Here’s the link to a poem by Suzanne Humphries, M.D. on June 2010, titled “Ode to Madness”.
http://www.imcv.info/vaccination/articles/ode-to-madness.html
Who is responsible for this madness?
patrons99
Why does there need to be a Precautionary Principle? With regard to global vaccine policy? Shouldn’t Pharma and our regulators (FDA, CDC, WHO) abide by the Precautionary Principle too?
http://healthjournalclub.blogspot.com/2010/05/vaccines-autism-and-precautionary.html
Perhaps, the answer can be found in an article titled “9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims” on October 28, 2009, by David Mihalovic ND (naturopathic medical doctor).
http://www.imcv.info/vaccination/articles/9-questions-that-stump-every-pro-vaccine-advocate-and-their-claims.html
John
Patrons, we’re not going to agree on the vaccine thing. No worries :>)
My concern about the whole conflict of interest issue is that I believe that obsessive focus on pharmaceutical ties is missing the broader point. Conflicts of interest are everywhere.
The AMA and the medical community at large presents itself as financially disinterested protectors of the public good, but they are actually members of the “surgical and outpatient healthcare provider industry”, with their own economic interests. Likewise, Steve Nissen, Sidney Wolfe and Peter Rost have each achieved fame and political influence through their roles as industry gadflys. Even our host (whom I like and admire) has his own COI’s. He earns his livelihood as a reporter, and scandal sells newspapers. I don’t consider Ed’s coverage entirely balanced, but I recognize his financial interests for what they are and take them into account when I read his stories, so I don’t have a problem with it.
In fact, once you remove everyone with a financial interest from the decision-making process, you’ve probably removed everyone with any real knowledge of the subject.
I will certainly fault the WHO for not disclosing the ties of all its panel members, but I believe that they made the correct decision. I’m a firm believer that stockpiling antivirals and widespread vaccinations was the correct implementation of what you call the “precautionary principle” given the known history of H1N1 flu variants. Too many poeple have died already.
Simpleton
Conflict of interest by any other definition is bias. Disclose, Disclose, Disclose. After that it’s, …play ball!
http://www.cspinet.org/integrity/ provided humungous contribution but they’ve stopped posting. Wish Pharmalot would carry it on.
Nancy
@ John
Speaking of Peter Rost, he was interviewed for an the article, “HHS learns from SEC: fraudster execs would be barred from drug industry,” which was published in Fortune yesterday. See
http://tinyurl.com/39rayqc
John
Nancy, I agree with the methods described in this article. I will only quibble on one point: The article leaves the impression that essentially all of the healthcare fraud bill in this country is attributable to pharmaceutical companies. In fact, the vast majority is attributable to private doctors offices and hospitals, as is the vast majority of the national healthcare bill.
But digging up scandals about big corporations sells papers and gets you re-elected. Talking about 200,000 deaths per year from medical malpractice and hospital-acquired infections caused by guys who look just like your child’s pediatrician does neither. So I don’t think we’ll see a similar law pulling the medical licenses of MDs who kill patients by not washing their hands.
Nancy
Yes, John. Where is our modern day Ignac Semmelweis? See
http://counterpunch.org/gawande03242007.html
vince
Weasels apt really as reported by Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aTo3LbhcA75I
“Baxter Sent Bird Flu Virus to European Labs by Error ”
By Michelle Fay Cortez and Jason Gale
Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) — Baxter International Inc. in Austria unintentionally contaminated samples with the bird flu virus that were used in laboratories in three neighboring countries, raising concern about the potential spread of the deadly disease.
The contamination was discovered when ferrets at a laboratory in the Czech Republic died after being inoculated with vaccine made from the samples early this month……
Lisa Van Syckel
Former Pharma,
I didnt get the vaccine, but, My daughter did. Being as she is a medical professional it had been mandated. I have a problem with mandates because it doesnt allow for informed consent.
Simpleton
Where’s the legality in mandates without transparency/disclosure? Not a lawyer, but I’d see it as failure to warn.
patrons99
Simpleton - You’ve get it! It’s all about freedom to make our own health choices. “They” don’t want us to have that freedom. This IS the major issue here! We all have a God-given unenumerated Constitutional right not to have jabs of any kind forced upon us.
“They” want to take that freedom from us…if not this frenzied, hysterical “pandemic” season, then the next, or the next, or the next. “They” posture behind allegedly acting for the greater good. But at what cost? “They” don’t know whether their Johnny-on-the-spot designer cocktails are safe. “They” don’t know whether their cocktails are effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine
Notwithstanding the uncertain consequences of cummulative toxicity, chronic immune stimulation, and adventitious biologic recombinants, “they” want to jab us at will for any and all pathogens, both actual and potential, including all evolved and mutated potential pathogens on the planet. This policy is fundamentally-wrong and MUST be widely discussed NOW!
I’ve used the word “they” in this comment because our governments and regulators are VERY complicit in this madness. Lately, their explanations to the public are sounding a bit vacuous, e.g. the WHO.
It’s come down to their effectively saying “trust us to make the right health choices on your behalf”. Well…our trust has not been earned, and even if they were trustworthy, it’s still our right to choose. We should never yield that right!
See an article titled “An Unwelcome Third Wheel: Patient Vaccination Without Doctor Authorization” by S. Humphries, MD on January 22, 2010.
http://www.imcv.info/vaccination/articles/vaccination-without-doctor-approval-in-a-us-hospital.html
See an article titled “The Truth about the Flu Shot” by Sherri Tenpenny, DO on July 17, 2009.
http://www.imcv.info/vaccination/articles/the-truth-about-the-flu-shot.html
See an article titled “Why the New Mumps Outbreak Puts You At Risk” by Robert J. Rowen, MD on March 3, 2010.
http://www.imcv.info/vaccination/articles/why-the-new-mumps-outbreak-puts-you-at-risk.html
Disclaimer: This comment and its content is purely opinion. It is not intended nor should it be considered to represent medical advice. The decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate is yours and yours alone.
Former Pharma Marketing Director
I agree about transparency, informed consent and freedom to make choices.
People should be given all the facts, not the made up facts, not the ones that have been carefully spun in some marketing office.
We are all much smarter then some people think we are.
When you try to dress things up, over “sell” it, this is when people’s radars go up. Just tell the plan simple truth.
There was no truth in the H1N1 story. Yes, we can blame the media, but who fed them? Pharma fed them, they took the leads - it sold papers, and made people watch CNN….
There is no cure for selfish greed - these issues discussed here are rife with greed. These issues will keep coming up, innocent lives will continue to be endangered - but for greed!
patrons99
Typo alert: Simpleton - you’ve got it!
Sorry for the glitch, Sincerely, “crazy” person.
To quote Jennifer Corbett Dooren,
“Vaccine safety should be a national conversation, outside of the autism world, which has been branded by our government and media from coast to coast as “crazy people.”
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/wall-street-journal-reports-on-wasting-disease-pig-virus-dna-in-paul-offit-merck-rotateq-vaccine.html
patrons99
Here is a well-referenced article titled “Swine Flu Vaccine: Will We Have A Choice?” posted June 22, 2009, by Barbara Loe Fisher. The article is on point. History is repeating itself. Imagine that! Who would ever have seen this coming!
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/June-2009/Swine-Flu-Vaccine–Will-We-Have-A-Choice–by-Barba.aspx
patrons99
A couple more links on point -
Here’s an article titled “Little girl died in cot after flu jab” by Jamie Walker from The Australian on April 26, 2010.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/little-girl-died-in-cot-after-flu-jab/story-e6frg6nf-1225858118518
Here’s an article titled “National Vaccine Information Center Calls for Expanded Monitoring of Pandemic H1N1 Vaccine Reactions” posted April 28, 2010
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/April-2010/NVIC-Calls-for-Expanded-Monitoring-of-H1N1-Vaccine.aspx
patrons99
Here is a well-referenced video and article titled “Vaccine Contamination: A Threat to Human Health” posted on May 27, 2010, by Barbara Loe Fisher.
“THIS is science? This is the kind of science we are supposed to trust to keep us healthy?
Drug companies are racing to develop vaccines that use human, animal, insect, plant and even cancer cells for production. 15,16,17 Living cells can be contaminated with viral DNA that could evolve in humans to make us sick or kill us. 18
Is Big Pharma seeking big profits putting pressure on the FDA, CDC and politicians to allow them to keep parts of deadly animal viruses and other potentially harmful ingredients in vaccines? 19,20,21,22,23
I think that is exactly what is happening. The bigger question is: will the American public let the pharmaceutical industry and special interest groups taking money from drug companies get away with it?”
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/May-2010/VACCINE-CONTAMINATION–A-THREAT-TO-HUMAN-HEALTH.aspx
patrons99
The link above did not copy properly. So, here’s another try. Sorry!
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/May-2010/VACCINE-CONTAMINATION–A-THREAT-TO-HUMAN-HEALTH.aspx
patrons99
Here is one more VERY recent link which is DIRECTLY ON POINT - an article titled “WHO scandal exposed: Advisors received kickbacks from H1N1 vaccine manufacturers” by Mike Adams on June 5, 2010.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z028936_WHO_vaccines.html
I’ll give it rest. I certainly did not intend to monopolize this thread. Some posts, however, are more important than others. In order of immediate importance to our health, this topic ranks near the very top.
ohn
Patrons buddy, you gotta be more careful with your facts.The link you posted draws its information from the same BMJ editorial that Ed cites above. The original investigators who wrote this BMJ article never accused anyone of taking kickbacks.
Financial ties may be troubling, but the word “kickbacks” implies an actual quid pro quo. Our host on this site has financial ties to the attorneys that advertise here, I don’t think anyone would ever accuse him of accepting kickbacks.
patrons99
ohn - I’m not accusing anyone of accepting “kickbacks”, least of all our host on this site. I simply provided a link to a VERY recent article. The readers of the article able to judge for themselves whether there was an actual quid pro quo. Further, I have no clue as to the “attorneys that advertise here”. Who do these attorneys currently represent? typically represent? Please enlighten me. Real questions.
patrons99
ohn - your comment raises a more general issue of disclosures and disclaimers. It becomes tedious to have to specific disclaimers with each post. If somehow that could be automated, perhaps with a symbol. As for disclosures, why not ask that each comment be accompanied by a disclosure, perhaps with a symbol. Would you like to get the ball rolling? :->
BTW, just as an aside - I’m retiring, as of today, from the blogging circuit. I’ve become repetitious and tedious. I’ve made all the points I care to.
My comments have all been sincere. What you see is what you get. I care deeply for the public health and our health freedoms.
I’ve learned a lot from the experience at this site. I realize I need to work on being less dogmatic and more polite. Those who wish to stay in touch, please do so. To reach me, just goggle “patrons99″ or send me an email, anytime.
tim
I’m a bioengineer. I got both the seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines. I’m just saying!
patrons99, I’m glad you’re retiring. Care to take your sock puppets with you? The signal/noise ratio here in the comments section is miserable.
I’ve gotta suspect it’d be really hard to avoid hiring people who’ve done paid work for drugmakers, especially if you’re drawing from a pool of acknowledged experts. Is there really a scandal here?
John
Patrons, I understand that you mean well and that we just disagree. Far be it from me to push you off this blog, I’m surely much less welcome here than you are!
My disclosure - spent my entire career in pharma research, hate seeing people call everything I ever did evil or at best a waste of time! Probably a much bigger source of bias than any mere research funding agreement, political aspirations, etc.
And I do enjoy a good argument. I learn something both from the people I argue with and from my own efforts to rebut them. And you have managed to shift my position very slightly, which is far more than most people have ever accomplished.
Paul
I don’t know what the heck you people are talking about…you went waaaaay off track on the original article.
The issue was that IN RETROSPECTIVE it was not a pandemic after all and whether it should have been called as one. I am sure if they had not declared one and we had one, you’d be just as critical. That tells me that many of you (not all) are going through life with the only goal of criticizing everything n matter the merits. Conspiracy theorists…
Prospectively, I recall many of you on this same site criticizing companies for not making more vaccine and for limiting access!!
vince
The issue is why was the definition of a pandemic changed . Why did the WHO predict massive deaths from a very mild strain of flu and how much of that advice was because of “conflicts of interest”. Also in the event of a real pandemic do flu vaccines really save lives?…….http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine-matter/7723/
JaT
The thing that bugged me the most about the H1N1 flip-flopping was when they said seniors had an immunity. Right. Weakened old folks in nursing homes that catch every bug 3 times, cycled by CNAs going from room to room. It hit a little too close to home- as my mom resides in a nursing home, and as it is so vital for my dad to be around for her. It still doesn’t feel to be a credible statement if there was concern for a major outbreak. There were so many such things.
John, I do understand that it must be difficult sometimes to read anti-pharma posts. I would be more concerned about the reputation of my hard work being sullied by sNDAs, iffy or off-label indications, or maybe even poor manufacturing practices. Seems all of pharma is willing to lend credence to those things. Do you ever get pissed or concerned about what’s being done with your hard work?
(sincere question)
It’s not as if pharma has done nothing to earn it’s reputation. That does not go to say that people believe everyone in pharma contributed to that reputation.
Stephany
The bottom line is choice, not forced medication or vaccines. Informed consent goes out the window when forced to receive a possible life altering drug or vaccine. The risk should be OURS to choose, not anyone else’s decision. It was reckless of hospitals and some health related field business’ to mandate this shot or be fired.
John
JaT, there is the good and the bad. I don’t mind reading about the bad, as long as the discussion is not completely one-sided.
I think that anybody who submits false data to regulatory authorities or omits key data ought to spend a LOT of time in jail. I think JNJ needs to pay some serious fines, and the CEO needs to be dismissed. I’m not so seriously concerned about off-label promotion. I myself take gabapentin for an off-label indication, and it has worked extremely well for me. The rep who brought this application to my doctor’s attention did me a big favor. Ditto DTC, but the story of how I benefited from this is too long to post here.
On the other hand, it seems ridiculous to me to see all the posts here calling drugs “deadly” based on a handful of SAEs among hundreds of thousands of patient years of treatment. (The recent thread on Xenical serves as an example.) In some cases I’ve posted statistics showing that the risk being discussed is than the risk in driving a car, and had folks on this blog respond by calling me a “shill” and a “pig”. No argument with my sources or my reasoning, just an attack on my character because my comments were not considered sufficiently negative and condemning.
Stephany
Doc Patrons 99,
Just take a day off don’t leave permanently, or start your blog!
JaT
John,
The car analogy doesn’t really fly in my opinion. It’s been used here a lot.
If you do not believe there is danger in projecting yourself down a slab of concrete at 55mph while dodging other containers on wheels, ya need your head examined.
The level of danger is (at least in part) in your control and based partly on your experience and self control.
When you go to a doctor you hope to find relief. He prescribes. We believe we should be able to find a higher level of safety based on HIS experience, FDA regulations, and something hopefully resembling product quality. No one even want us to believe the level of danger is in our control.
Just Sayin’
_____________________
Hey Stephany,
I didn’t mean to imply that CNAs should be mandated to have the vaccine- in fact, I couldn’t be more opposed to mandates. CNAs can carry a bug from room to room without ever contracting it themselves. They sometimes amp up the cleanliness routine with an in-house epidemic. Usually too little too late.
Stephany
Oh I didn’t think that—I was referencing Lisa’s comment how her daughter had to receive the vaccine due to mandate.
(and thinking about one local hospital that required it)
The Pigs
JaT, I understand what you mean. Somehow it just seems twisted that something you would take to get better ends up making you sick. And there are certainly all kinds of studies showing that people are more comfortable with risks when they feel they have some measure of control. That’s why people feel safer driving than they do flying, even though flying is statistically much safer.
My viewpoint has always been that we should follow our hearts and emotions when deciding what our values are, and use our heads in deciding how to implement those values.
As long as I’m complaining, I do get tired of the endless posts that refer to pharma as a monolithic, corrupt entity (something you came very close to in your last 2 posts). Or of the way in which anyone associated with the industry is assumed to be guilty as soon as they are accused. In fact there are something on the order of a million people working in the industry, 99+% of which obey the law. This sort of guilt by association is not really all that different from racism or sexism when you think about it. “Of course, we were just talking about those other (fill in the blank), we understand that you’re different….”
Stephany
Racism compared to critizism of pharma companies?
GIVE ME A BREAK
And your 99% stats “of which obey the law”.
Sorry, no comparison or sympathy.
If the news bothers you and you work in that industry, then maybe you should re-think your career, it’s far from a pure industry.
JaT
Funny when you consider I was saying that I didn’t think everyone in pharma contributed to their crappy reputation. Reading and Comprehention classes can be taken at a community college near you.
JaT
patrons99 scooted. Comparing me to someone who is sexist or racist (laughable if you could see my extended family) I’m scooting too.
I have appreciated the comments by Atlex, Nathan, John, and others. It made the conversation interesting and informative. Truth is I’m not real interested in flaming by either side. Don’t care to be drawn into it. If I wanted that I’d hang at Cafe Pharma. Was it closed today?
Best
Ambergris
In regards to the “emergency committee”:
1. If integrity was a problem, perhaps those
people should not have been on the committee. Any protection of integrity and independence expired with last year’s decision, unless -
2. Why would the WHO use the same 16 people, exposing itself to the same criticism since it seems insistent on retaining the same policy?
3. This policy of partial transparency in not disclosing any conflicts of interest could erode the credibility of the WHO.
4. Crying “wolf”/declaring a pandemic could be another cridibility issue. A pack of coyotes/epidemics does not constitute a “wolf”.
Ambergris
1. Exposed drug & vaccine manufacturer’s inability to meet the demand when and where it was needed.
2. Vaccine liability: Determine composition to be
made. Produce it in sufficient quantity as fast as possible. Problems: Meet safety and efficacy stan-dards. Potency issues may not surface until in mass usage and post-marketing analysis. “Haste makes waste.” There is no profit in a drug recall!
3. “Stockpiling” for “essential personnel” adds
further stress on the system.
4. Schools receive money for having students in school. A decision to close schools is not easy.
Would you want to send your child to school once
absenteeism rises due to perceived scare or actual flu cases are documented? - These are side issues.
John
“Seems all of pharma is willing to lend credence to those things.”
“And your 99% stats “of which obey the law”.
Sorry, no comparison or sympathy.”
You’ve written off an entire class of people based on a single shared characteristic. Case closed.
patrons99
JaT, Stephany, Stephanie, Former Pharma Medical Director, Vince, John, JiM, Lisa, Evelyn, ex-FDAer, Doc Helm, Salmon, Condor, pharmavet, and others - yes, I’ve scooted. I’ll be writing and setting up my own blogsite. I sensed that my comments here were becoming too repetitious and contentious. I wish you all the best. Any recommendation on robust blog-hosting companies? I’m still very much a newbie to the blogosphere.
MsPiggy
“Case closed” BUZZ!! WRONG!! Would you like to try another category for $500 John?
“You’ve written off an entire class of people based on a single shared characteristic.”
I gather the single shared characteristic your referring to here is the criminal greed and obvious lack of professional ethical boundaries.
That “99+% of which obey the law” figure is about as ridiculous as “your kind” defending this rampant and out of control corruption “epidemic” permeating an entire industry.
No worry, I’m sure they will be selling a pill for that soon enough!
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2010/06/04/2010-06-04_scientists_develop_pill_that_erases_traumatic_memories.html
Those like yourself “Pigs/John” that are not willing to be part of the solution by burying your heads in the sand, are in the truest sense very much a part of the problem.
But go ahead and pull that “poor pitiful me” card while comparing the pharmaceutical corporate criminal corruption and unethical practices to “Racism” and “Sexism”.
This is really quite laughable that you would have to stretch this topic into outrageous fantastical fabrication territory when confronted with a daily dose of exposure shining a light upon this nasty and unavoidable truth.
I will leave with a paraphrased quote to ponder today - “If you can’t stand the Heat, then get out of the kitchen”
=)
John
Ms. Piggy, thank you for providing such a nice exemplification of the behavior that I was referring to. You’ve made my point so much more succinctly that I was able to do on my own.
MsPiggy
Dear John;
You are so very welcome. Anytime you need assistance and clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.
=)
truthman30
Interesting stuff.. I was suspicious of this pandemic nonsense right from the start, and there was no way in hell I would have got vaccinated.. Because quite simply pharmaceutical companies have gone beyond untrustworthy, dubious and sinister behaviour..into the realm of the dangerously absurd.. It is a shame that an industry which has the potential to affect real positive change in this world chooses to behave in such an atrocious manner with no regard for ethics, morality, truth or human life.. Above all the pharmaceutical health industry should be held as a beacon of human dignity and ethics, but instead it parades like a sociopathic used car sales man with greed and profit as it’s sole intention.. Tragic.. And so very very sad..
JaT
So John,
Because you appeared to be cool with my comment (as per your reply) until The Pigs attempted to make me less credible somehow, I have to call you out.
My comment being:
“I would be more concerned about the reputation of my hard work being sullied by sNDAs, iffy or off-label indications, or maybe even poor manufacturing practices. Seems all of pharma is willing to lend credence to those things.”
Your comment lending credence to one of those things:
“I’m not so seriously concerned about off-label promotion. I myself take gabapentin for an off-label indication, and it has worked extremely well for me.”
Your comment:
“In some cases I’ve posted statistics showing that the risk being discussed is than the risk in driving a car, and had folks on this blog respond by calling me a “shill” and a “pig”.”
But it’s cool to compare me to a racist or sexist when I have never attacked you and had no ill intent.
Hypocritical much?
Just had to get that off my chest.